[Politics] Brexit

[Mellotron]

is it? or is this something imagined to suit? Switzerland who have referendum on everything and dont run confirmatory votes. Sweden voted to stay out of Euro without confirmation. looked at some others and while theres a few re-run its the exception rather than the rule.

the problem is good arguments for a second referendum are good arguments for having another later on.

that would be a different matter, if we could have an actual exit proposed, we could have a open and fair referendum. the EU wont allow negotiation on this though so here we are.

I'm not saying it's the rule, and I apologise if I appeared to be over-egging the pudding. What I intended to say was that it is not an uncommon practice, and certainly would be logical for such a huge decision as this, where the first referendum was both non-binding and vague, in terms of a specific Leave outcome.

Why not Boris's deal? He is PM, and he has negotiated the deal with the EU, which they have agreed to. That vs Remain seems logical, no? Also, clearly specified and implementable options completely negates the need - or even really the possibility of - a 3rd referendum.

In 2018, Switzerland held a confirmatory vote on a 2016 referendum which asked voters whether cohabiting partners and married couples should pay the same amount of tax. The Swiss Supreme Court voided the 2016 result and ordered another vote on the grounds of misinformation about how many married couples paid more tax than cohabiting couples.

 

[Stat Brother]

is it? or is this something imagined to suit? Switzerland who have referendum on everything and dont run confirmatory votes. Sweden voted to stay out of Euro without confirmation. looked at some others and while theres a few re-run its the exception rather than the rule.

the problem is good arguments for a second referendum are good arguments for having another later on.



that would be a different matter, if we could have an actual exit proposed, we could have a open and fair referendum. the EU wont allow negotiation on this though so here we are.

on the other hand an election isnt likely to resolve anything either (unless Conservative do get a majority, even then i wouldnt put money on them voting the same way).

if only we had a group of people that could make these decisions for us.

Do Switzerland and Sweden ever hold referendums solely to sure up a split party as it approaches a difficult General Election?


Furthermore are their referendums purely guidelines, like this one, or legally binding which this referendum never ever was?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Or maybe a third? Or a fourth? Or just keep doing until 'the people' get the 'right' result?

Always amusing seeing people who said Cameron was a twunt for allowing a referendum and said complex issues such as our future relationship with the EU should be left to our elected representatives now insisting the ill-informed/racist/ gullible masses should vote again in another one.

Going cold on the idea of another General Election and assuming it won't change anything has absolutely nothing to do with the polls showing Boris well ahead and the forces of remain split .... no sireeee.

 

[Mellotron]

This is further useful info, for those interested in modern democracy;

International guidelines

Referendums are used infrequently in the UK, and a confirmatory ballot has never taken place before. So, what lessons can we learn from other countries which have held confirmatory votes in the past?

It is first worth looking at international guidelines already out there. In 2018, the Council of Europe (confusingly not an EU institution) had its Venice Commission put together a practical code of good practice on how referendums could be used to enhance democracy. This code clearly says that a referendum can either pose a general question (as in the 2016 vote) or give voters a choice between specific constitutional or legislative texts.

What’s more, the code says that if a general question is posed then the result cannot be legally binding unless it is clear how that result will be implemented. In other words, it is designed to avoid the mess the UK has gotten itself into. The guidelines are also very keen on a second confirmatory referendum following a general question.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sums up the Lib dems
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjARegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw17y0meDOglz2yxRHrFcvXD
Regards
DF

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Those who talk about the north being Leave (ignoring Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Newcastle) read this.

Question Time (which we've known for quite a long time is a propaganda programme) came from South Shields.

[tweet]1187649244674625536[/tweet]


Investment in the area from the EU, that Westminster won't be replacing.

[tweet]1187665328924512256[/tweet]



But this fella keeps popping up all over the country and gets picked to ask a question.

[tweet]1187674922241396737[/tweet]

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This is further useful info, for those interested in modern democracy;

You still haven't got over the referendum result LEAVE MEANS LEAVE
regards
DF

 

[Mellotron]

You still haven't got over the referendum result LEAVE MEANS LEAVE
regards
DF

POTATO means POTATO

I'm all ready for Brexit! When we leaving?

You are the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://twitter.com/deficit_the/status/1186774529542119424?s=20

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Those who talk about the north being Leave (ignoring Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Newcastle) read this.

Question Time (which we've known for quite a long time is a propaganda programme) came from South Shields.

[tweet]1187649244674625536[/tweet]


Investment in the area from the EU, that Westminster won't be replacing.

[tweet]1187665328924512256[/tweet]



But this fella keeps popping up all over the country and gets picked to ask a question.

[tweet]1187674922241396737[/tweet]

Have you ever thought about a job at Sky news
Regards
DF

 

[daveinplzen]

POTATO means POTATO

I'm all ready for Brexit! When we leaving?

You are the gift that keeps on giving.

Always used to quote a date. It's an emotional thing with nitwits like him. Much rather the country suffers rather than his emotions.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

POTATO means POTATO

I'm all ready for Brexit! When we leaving?

You are the gift that keeps on giving.

Really, I didn't realise democracy had a shelf life , leaving as soon as possible, I hear the EU have held back on an extension ?
Regards
DF

 

[Hampster Gull]

Sums up the Lib dems
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjARegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw17y0meDOglz2yxRHrFcvXD
Regards
DF

Ah, the nasty parties hard right get into action to try and undermine the opposition.

Vote Revoke

 

[Bodian]

is it? or is this something imagined to suit? Switzerland who have referendum on everything and dont run confirmatory votes. Sweden voted to stay out of Euro without confirmation. looked at some others and while theres a few re-run its the exception rather than the rule.

They wouldn't have needed a confirmatory referendum if the first was to stay out of EU, because there was then no further legislation to confirm. It would only be needed to approve the changes.

if we could have an actual exit proposed, we could have a open and fair referendum. the EU wont allow negotiation on this though so here we are.

Don't quite follow this. If the bill was debated and agreed with amendments (or none) - then that would be the actual exit proposed. The Eu would be quite happy to agree a softer Brexit.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Ah, the nasty partiesw hard right get into action to try and undermine the opposition.

Vote Revoke

I know,people hate to be exposed for what they are,the fact that they hide behind the banner of Democrats makes it even more nauseating

No sane person would vote for these extremists
Regards
DF

 

[Grombleton]

Sums up the Lib dems
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjARegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw17y0meDOglz2yxRHrFcvXD
Regards
DF

Unity News Network

UKIP in all but name.

 

[beorhthelm]

Don't quite follow this. If the bill was debated and agreed with amendments (or none) - then that would be the actual exit proposed. The Eu would be quite happy to agree a softer Brexit.

you must invoke article 50 before EU negotiates withdrawal. withdrawal needs be negotiated before negotiation on future relations. so it is not possible to know what the future relation will be, at best you can outline and agree your own proposal (which our leaders also failed to achieve before or since).

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Interesting article from the economics editor of the Guardian yesterday ...

Don’t be fooled – the EU is no defender of workers’ rights

The European project has always made life easier for capital. That’s why multinationals like it so much

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/24/eu-workers-rights-capital-multinationals

Forget to mention a couple of fun facts related to this

The last President of the European Commission went straight into a very well paid job at Goldmann Sachs and the current President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, spent years in his previous role as Luxembourg’s prime minister secretly blocking EU efforts to tackle tax avoidance by multinational corporations, I wonder what job he will get when he steps down on the 1st of November.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Forget to mention a couple of fun facts related to this

The last President of the European Commission went straight into a very well paid job at Goldmann Sachs and the current President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, spent years in his previous role as Luxembourg’s prime minister secretly blocking EU efforts to tackle tax avoidance by multinational corporations, I wonder what job he will get when he steps down on the 1st of November.

British politicians would never go into well paid jobs post their political careers cough cough

On J-C J allegation i suggest you take him to court, would be interested in the outcome

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Or maybe a third? Or a fourth? Or just keep doing until 'the people' get the 'right' result?

This has been dealt with so many times that I can only assume you're trolling.


(Why don't you have a crack at something different? That old one about "we only joined because we were told it was just about trade" might do - it hasn't been floated for at least 24 hours.)