[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

They’ve all had their internet confiscated for misuse.

Yet you still have yours Nibble
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Wild, imaginative and frankly, ridiculous claims regarding Verhofstadt now? I thought leavers crap on here couldn't get funnier. I was wrong.

Priceless Dave
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Thankfully you are nowhere a position of power.

No, but the thought of that happening will have you running to change your underwear, remainer Bravado Alive and kicking
Get ready for Brexit
Regards
DF

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

You aren't really trying very hard, the start of your post raised my hopes, but then you get sarcastic. Do you think I want to get rid of workers rights? Do you think I hate clean beaches?

The principle is what is important. I have explained this so many times on here, but it never matters. But Ok, I want to be constructive so I'll do it again, but I have a feeling in 10-15 pages time it won't matter and I'll be asked again to explain myself.

The EU could have only 100% laws which I personally agree with. But that doesn't make it Ok that laws are not made by people I (or you) have the power to elect or remove. An EU which has laws I 100% agree with today, may have laws I don't agree with (or you don't agree with) tomorrow. Who makes the law is more important than what the law currently is.

I don't know what your personal politics are, but I want you to be able, if you elect a government, to determine what the laws in this country are, even if I don't personally agree with them. The point is that if the laws are not what you feel they should be, or what I feel they should be, we can debate, we can campaign, we can elect and through that we can decide. That is what I want. It is short sighted to say that the current laws of the EU are good and the current laws of the UK Government are bad. Tomorrow the UK Government might be your prefered choice, and the EU might be under the direction of people with whom you don't agree. Inside the EU you won't be able to change the laws made by people who don't share your values, even if you have the UK government of your choice.

It's not about this or that law, and it shouldn't be about the makeup of the current EU or UK governments. It is only about whether our elected officials decide our laws or not. And it is important that they do.

Elected MEPs make our laws - or at least those that come from the European parliament. This idea that those laws are made and imposed by faceless unelected bureaucrats is a myth, and I am not accusing you of having ever said that.... although you might have done! The bureaucrats will formulate the laws in Europe, just as Civil Servants do in the UK. And MEP's are elected.

Obviously, though, they are sitting alongside MEPs from all the other European Countries, and the turn out in European Elections in this country is historically not very high, I guess, but that is not the EU's fault...… and I presume you are talking about laws coming from Westminster.

And personally, I am quite happy with the current situation, which could well not be the current situation much longer.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Bad losers you mean

No, I don't mean bad losers. I mean people who have thought it all through and think that the best thing for this country would be to stay within the EU. They would also for the most part realise that BREXIT in some way shape or form is going to happen.

And the point of the protest is about "let the people decide", which is ENTIRELY democratic, before some of the greater idiots on here start talking about undemocratic loons.

This is more about bad winners than bad losers.

As Will Hutton has said, perhaps the best approach is to hurry up and get out so that we can realise our mistake and start working towards getting back in.

 

[The Clamp]

 

[Baldseagull]

No, the referendum will be respected when we leave. By all means argue why the referendum should not be respected, but you can’t claim it has been because it simply hasn’t.

It can't be properly respected because there is no Brexit deal that will give us;
the exact same benefits out as in, have no downside, only a very considerable upside, set us up to do trade deals with economies totaling ten times the size of the EU economy, make us part of a free trade area from Iceland to Turkey whilst ending freedom of movement, gives us an extra £350 million pounds a week to spend on public services, avoids a sudden change that disrupts the economy, makes the Union with Scotland stronger, etc.

That lot above was part of the proposition Leave campaigners gave us, no one has voted down any deal that offered any of that, let alone all of that.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Yes, but it's not really true.

The vast majority who voted remain and lost are saying that the situation has changed, we now know something different from before. They haven't changed their minds, they are just convinced for some reason that others must surely now agree with them.

Well the vast majority who voted leave and won say the situation hasn't changed, their minds haven't changed. The only "new information" is that remainers who said they would respect the outcome of the vote are now saying they won't and are trying everything they can to stop us leaving.

Don't kid yourself, the purpose of a second vote is to have one last try to change the result. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, so why not? People who won the vote the first time see nothing in the suggestion of a second vote other than ungentlemanly conduct.

Do you honestly think that if at the time of the 2016 Referendum Leave had come with a health warning "Brexit will make you 7% worse off" they would have got anywhere near 52%?

The government's own studies and their Operation Yellowhammer documents now tell us Brexit will be an economic disaster.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If I was in Boris shoes I would be on the phone to Merkel and Macron plus a couple of others and ask for their assurance that they will vote against an extension and it made known that will happen, and if so I would suggest that I put the deal back to parliament on Tuesday. It will then be take this deal or no deal and so will probably win the day.

So you think the big European leaders are going to be prepared to put the bullets in the gun then hand it to Boris to hold against Parliament's head??

You Leavers really don't understand the EU at all. They genuinely are our friends and - as such - will not directly intervene in what they know is Britain's decision to make via a Parliamentary majority.

I am embarrassed that we are testing their patience to this degree. Boris's two letters stunt is both juvenile and despicable.

 

[Mental Lental]

Mine can't he's a fascist **** who doesn't give a shit about the majority, he just nods and votes when told. Why would he do anything else, he's virtually unopposed in Adur and just has to tow the line and rake in the cash. I'm just astounded at how many clearly ****ing stupid people locally vote for him. There isn't a better example for proportional representation and compulsory voting in the land.

I sometimes think I'd like to be a canvasser working for one of the other parties. I don't care which one, I'd just like to stand on the doorstep of a Loughton voter and confront them with print outs from this page...........

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10371/tim_loughton/east_worthing_and_shoreham/votes

And ask if that they are for and against all the same things as Loughton is, as demonstrably based on his voting record.

 

[Baldseagull]

Instead of people just saying “we voted for it, so must leave”, why can’t we talk about actual, tangible benefits/consequences to Leaving/Remaining. As we all now know, there are NO benefits to leaving (unless you happen to be a Billionaire already, I’d suggest that doesn’t include many of us). If anyone disagrees, or if I’ve missed something, please enlighten me! As nobody has managed to for nearly 4 years! For the majority of us, EU membership has only been a positive effect on day to day life, in so many ways. And no ones life is going to be worse should we remain a member.

F*ck Brexit.

We did that debate in the first two years after the vote, and after that, all leavers had left was the democratic mandate for leaving.

 

[Baldseagull]

That's a decent example to be fair.

Someone made a poster about immigration numbers.

All you see is a persons skin color.

Refugees are pictured, leaving the EU has no relation to our asylum process, or the ability of refugees to reach the UK, except that we may not be sharing info as we do now that will tell us if they already made an asylum application elsewhere in the EU.

 

[Klaas]

That's a decent example to be fair.

Someone made a poster about immigration numbers.

All you see is a persons skin color.

This is all that is wrong with a lot of debate today, and it's hilarious that you continuously put yourself forward as some kind of reasonable voice in the face of bullying.

Disingenuous, deceitful and manipulative. 'Someone' did indeed make a poster, Farage's UKIP. And it's about immigration yes, but it most certainly has nothing to do with Britain leaving the EU. A picture of Syrian refugees (unable to enter the UK under EU law) was used for one reason, and one reason only. Even UKIP's only MP at the time condemned it and here you are, not only claiming not see the real reason that photo was used, but even trying to twist it so that people who point out what is as plain as our noses on our faces, are in fact the prejudiced.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Do you honestly think that if at the time of the 2016 Referendum Leave had come with a health warning "Brexit will make you 7% worse off" they would have got anywhere near 52%?

The government's own studies and their Operation Yellowhammer documents now tell us Brexit will be an economic disaster.

Yellowhammer is solely about *no deal* Brexit, not Brexit with a deal.

 

[maltaseagull]

Because the English High Court was on ****ing holiday. That’s a ****ing fact. You can ****ing google it.

Another example of someone getting furious about something that has a perfectly reasonable explanation if one had just bothered to do a modicum of research.

Far more entertaining to get an arrogant person like you to inform us!

However, if you were to calm down and google it, you would see that you are WRONG!!!!

Term dates :Michaelmas: Tuesday 1 October and ends on Friday 20 December 2019.

My post was in relation to this story:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50117164

 

[beorhthelm]

Do you honestly think that if at the time of the 2016 Referendum Leave had come with a health warning "Brexit will make you 7% worse off" they would have got anywhere near 52%?

there was and they did. economics was not the reason a lot of people voted.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Yellowhammer is solely about *no deal* Brexit, not Brexit with a deal.

But Boris’ Brexit with a ‘deal’ is *no deal*.

The reason that the ERG are on board with this deal is that it gives them the opportunity to get their no deal once the second phase of negotiations conclude next year (Letwin scuppered their original plan). They still trust Boris to deliver a No Deal. The support of the ERG will soon disappear once the No Deal trap door is removed from the withdrawal agreement this week. Then where does that leave the deal?

 

[Stat Brother]

This is all that is wrong with a lot of debate today, and it's hilarious that you continuously put yourself forward as some kind of reasonable voice in the face of bullying.

Disingenuous, deceitful and manipulative. 'Someone' did indeed make a poster, Farage's UKIP. And it's about immigration yes, but it most certainly has nothing to do with Britain leaving the EU. A picture of Syrian refugees (unable to enter the UK under EU law) was used for one reason, and one reason only. Even UKIP's only MP at the time condemned it and here you are, not only claiming not see the real reason that photo was used, but even trying to twist it so that people who point out what is as plain as our noses on our faces, are in fact the prejudiced.

Dingo's 'reasonable voice' is funny.

He writes a sincere post.
Gets 4 or 5 equally sincere or fact based opposing posts, in reply.
Refuses to answer any.
Eventually answers one specific fact after being repeatedly asked too.
Then spends the rest of the day name calling with Clamp (pretty unedifying for both)
Finally says 'why won't anyone have a sincere debate'.


Rinse and repeat.

 

[Lever]

Dingo's 'reasonable voice' is funny.

He writes a sincere post.
Gets 4 or 5 equally sincere or fact based opposing posts, in reply.
Refuses to answer any.
Eventually answers one specific fact after being repeatedly asked too.
Then spends the rest of the day name calling with Clamp (pretty unedifying for both)
Finally says 'why won't anyone have a sincere debate'.


Rinse and repeat.

Nicely summed up.... s/he should be in the Cabinet, in both senses of the word!

 

[zefarelly]

I sometimes think I'd like to be a canvasser working for one of the other parties. I don't care which one, I'd just like to stand on the doorstep of a Loughton voter and confront them with print outs from this page...........

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10371/tim_loughton/east_worthing_and_shoreham/votes

And ask if that they are for and against all the same things as Loughton is, as demonstrably based on his voting record.

Likewise . . . his voting record is appalling on so many levels. I F ing hate it when he turns up at the farmers market. Smug git, gurning in a jumper and twill shirt, he looks so punchable. It's extremely tempting.