[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

It's not. bashlsdir is a massive fckwit and can't see beyond the end of his nose. As we've seen on this thread countless times, he has the IQ of a badger. He's only ok with it because it's enacting something he agrees with, even though it is CLEARLY an abuse of parliamentary process.

Even though I don't agree with some of you remainers, one thing I have never done on this forum is call people names. Calling me a fckwit is unacceptable.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

But the fact that they didn't was down to the fact that they felt the deal on the table wasn't in the best interests of the country - it's their job to vote like that.

You are absolutely right in saying that parliament has a job to deliver Brexit, but the issue here is that the Tories started off by putting in insane red lines. Out of the customs union, out of the single market, get rid of the Irish backstop - the problem is that doing all those things makes a sensible Brexit absolutely impossible. Do you honestly think this referendum would have ended up leave if we had been told that the only way out was a hasty, expensive no deal?

I'm a remainer as you know, and I would be "happy" to see the result respected if it had been implemented without these stupid Tory-defined red lines in place. We should already be enjoying an EFTA-like relationship with the EU. There is absolutely no mandate for where we are now.

They had the former PM of Iceland on Sky today. He said that the best route for the UK was this. He also predicted that 'in the long run' the UK would flourish out of the EU, and cited Iceland as an example. The problem with his analysis was that Iceland never had to dis-entwine (if that's a word!) from a 40 year relationship with the EU. Anyway, an opportunity missed perhaps as we plunge towards the binary reality.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I agree with [MENTION=27983]Bas[/MENTION]hisdir, for what it's worth and I write as someone who usually finds himself pretty much in agreement with [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]

 

[Hotchilidog]

But the fact that they didn't was down to the fact that they felt the deal on the table wasn't in the best interests of the country - it's their job to vote like that.

You are absolutely right in saying that parliament has a job to deliver Brexit, but the issue here is that the Tories started off by putting in insane red lines. Out of the customs union, out of the single market, get rid of the Irish backstop - the problem is that doing all those things makes a sensible Brexit absolutely impossible. Do you honestly think this referendum would have ended up leave if we had been told that the only way out was a hasty, expensive no deal?

I'm a remainer as you know, and I would be "happy" to see the result respected if it had been implemented without these stupid Tory-defined red lines in place. We should already be enjoying an EFTA-like relationship with the EU. There is absolutely no mandate for where we are now.

Absolutely spot on. I too am also a remainer but I guess I could have stomached a 'Norway style' Brexit which along with the Swiss example were touted as blueprints during the referendum campaign. I would guess that there would actually be a begrudging majority for this in the country if honestly pursued after the vote. May hamstrung the negotiations immediately with her red lines and then cynically drew the process out to the bitter end with a deal she knew did not have parliamentary support.

May went in to the 2017 election expecting an easy win so she could railroad her Brexit deal through parliament. This was on offer to the public at the election, and the truth is, it was rejected by the public. Labour won back 3 million of the 6 million voters it had lost since 1997 and robbed the tories of their comfortable majority, and that is the sole reason we are not out now. For all the flack that Corbyn gets, whilst he campaigned for remain and reform he was prepared to negotiate a soft Brexit (which many would now support) as he respected the result of the referendum.

What was not on offer during the referendum was a no-deal Brexit, which will prove massively damaging to this country. The so called patriots cheering this farce on from the sidelines will see Britain's influence in the world reduced as the big trading blocks get to dictate terms to an enfeebled economy. In addition there is every chance that Union itself will crack apart as Scotland finally says goodbye and Northern Ireland may revolt against the DUP and seek a border referendum on the island of Ireland. So much for Great Britain.

The current PM has NO mandate to wreak this havoc on our nation at all and parliament must be respected.

The referendum campaign was not fought along the lines of the current debate and any resolution to this situation must be confirmed by a democratic mandate from the public either in the form of a confirmatory vote or an election.

 

[Simster]

Even though I don't agree with some of you remainers, one thing I have never done on this forum is call people names. Calling me a fckwit is unacceptable.

Fair enough, sorry for calling you a fckwit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, I've signed. It was over 11K an hour ago.

Edit duplicate post

 

[The Rivet]

Even though I don't agree with some of you remainers, one thing I have never done on this forum is call people names. Calling me a fckwit is unacceptable.

It's standard rubbish from people like Simster. Now the shennanigans are being used against remainer MPs they howl. It would be amusing but those hypocritical MPs just make me sick.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

OK, we've had this discussion before - ERG number ~60. May lost the votes by far more than 60. If MPs had voted based on their constituency results in the referendum then we would be out already. Now those remainer MPs are bitching about lack of democracy. We're at this point precisely because of people like Dominic Grieve.

There are more than 120 ERG members

 

[The Rivet]

Now 47K

The allotted time for this petition to be debated will be sometime early November.

 

[Chicken Run]

Even though I don't agree with some of you remainers, one thing I have never done on this forum is call people names. Calling me a fckwit is unacceptable.

The comment is irrelevant mate don’t worry, be satisfied he hasn’t got the courage to say it to your face [emoji106]

 

[cheshunt seagull]

But the fact that they didn't was down to the fact that they felt the deal on the table wasn't in the best interests of the country - it's their job to vote like that.

You are absolutely right in saying that parliament has a job to deliver Brexit, but the issue here is that the Tories started off by putting in insane red lines. Out of the customs union, out of the single market, get rid of the Irish backstop - the problem is that doing all those things makes a sensible Brexit absolutely impossible. Do you honestly think this referendum would have ended up leave if we had been told that the only way out was a hasty, expensive no deal?

I'm a remainer as you know, and I would be "happy" to see the result respected if it had been implemented without these stupid Tory-defined red lines in place. We should already be enjoying an EFTA-like relationship with the EU. There is absolutely no mandate for where we are now.

Totally sums up how I feel. One group has forced their definition of Brexit on the rest of us and then claimed, without a shred of evidence, that this narrow and extreme definition is the will of the people.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Evasive as per.

And wrong, as per.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

Labour Maifesto page 24 - negotiating Brexit reads:

"Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. "

The same manifesto goes on to say:

"Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade."

Lets focus on democracy though shall we?

The 2017 GE voting share : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results

Over 52% of people voted for Anti No Deal and Remain parties.

Furthermore, the 40% vote share of conservatives includes votes for the Scottish Conservatives whose leader opposes no deal.

Every single reputable poll indicates less than 30% of the people think that No Deal qwill be a satisfactory outcome. The people who think it will be a good outcome is even less.

This is not about democracy. It's right in front of your eyes, yet you will not see?

And yet at their last conference the Labour Party agreed to 'leave every option on the table' …. i.e. sit on the fence.

Equally, a vast majority of people at the last GE voted for a party that said it would honour the result of the referendum …… yet MPs have consistently failed to do this.

 

[Simster]

The comment is irrelevant mate don’t worry, be satisfied he hasn’t got the courage to say it to your face [emoji106]

How do you know that?

You'll note I was big enough to apologise, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to carry on.

 

[Mental Lental]

Forcing a no deal by suspending parliament is against the constitution and thus not going to work under the very first statement of article 50:

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

https://web.archive.org/web/2016062.../title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree with [MENTION=27983]Bas[/MENTION]hisdir, for what it's worth and I write as someone who usually finds himself pretty much in agreement with [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]

Team [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]. Calling someone a ****wit is no reason to get upset. It’s not personal nor specific , it’s a regularly used broad term.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They had the former PM of Iceland on Sky today. He said that the best route for the UK was this. He also predicted that 'in the long run' the UK would flourish out of the EU, and cited Iceland as an example. The problem with his analysis was that Iceland never had to dis-entwine (if that's a word!) from a 40 year relationship with the EU. Anyway, an opportunity missed perhaps as we plunge towards the binary reality.

Iceland are in with Norway as part of Schengen (which we rejected) and EEA/EFTA so it's a bit rich for him to suggest we would flourish out of the EU.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/preparing-for-eu-exit-norway-iceland-and-liechtenstein

 

[theonlymikey]

And yet at their last conference the Labour Party agreed to 'leave every option on the table' …. i.e. sit on the fence.

Equally, a vast majority of people at the last GE voted for a party that said it would honour the result of the referendum …… yet MPs have consistently failed to do this.

You know fine well No deal was never going to be left on the table by Labour. And as such, my post remains true and relevant.

Do you have any sort of evidence, ANY evidence at all that there is a mandate for no deal then please speak up now.

Do not use the referendum. Because as I previously corrected you this was mandate for brexit, not a mandate for no deal.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Even though I don't agree with some of you remainers, one thing I have never done on this forum is call people names. Calling me a fckwit is unacceptable.

Not so sure about that.........

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And yet at their last conference the Labour Party agreed to 'leave every option on the table' …. i.e. sit on the fence.

Equally, a vast majority of people at the last GE voted for a party that said it would honour the result of the referendum …… yet MPs have consistently failed to do this.

A vast majority of people at the last election voted for a party that said it would reject No Deal.

You've shown your colours.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

There are more than 120 ERG members

Hmmmm ……. https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/erg-brexit-group-members-jacob-rees-mogg-explained/

And there are plenty of other commentators that put the number at between 60-70 …… not even close to your 120. Feel free to post a source of your figure ….. my guess is it will come from Twitter.