[Politics] Brexit

[hans kraay fan club]

Yes I'm happy about it.

shocking

Nope. Not remotely surprising.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do not prorogue Parliament - Petition

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157

Yes, I've signed. It was over 11K an hour ago.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It gets worse.

"If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week then we won’t resign. We won’t recommend another government, we’ll dissolve parliament, call an election between November 1-5 and there’ll be zero chance of Grieve legislation,” says senior official.

How angry are you now? This was never about democracy, clearly.

But that's exactly what it is about. The country voted to leave the EU ( via democratic means ). MPs and the likes of Gina Miller have attempted to negate that vote constantly. Despite whatever way you do the maths - constituency based or one person one vote - the decision was to leave. To the point that Corbyn even wants to try install himself as PM without even his party having elector mandate to do so. Yet now a leave leaning government uses (legal) functions at it's disposal to prevent MPs going against the public vote it's suddenly 'undemocratic' !

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This has now gone way beyond Leave or Remain. An unelected prime minister has taken the decision to suspend parliamentary democracy. This is a coup and we should be worried.

There is already talk of a General Strike.

 

[Wellesley]

Nothing says "democracy" like your unelected head of state closing your parliament down at the behest of an unelected Prime Minister.

Is this what you mean by 'taking back control'? I thought Parliament is sovereign?

Are you genuinely happy and comfortable about this seizure and snuffing out of democratic process? Direct question to you all below - would love to hear whether you're 'Brextreemists' or not.
[MENTION=28109]Wellesley[/MENTION] [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION] [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION]

Delighted. If any of you gave a shit about democracy then you'd agree we should be out already.

 

[Two Professors]

That's not what you said, and you know that. Lying about it will just make you look even more stupid, but for a laugh, tell me about this muslim SS unit and its atrocities in France.

Just look it up Dave,and stop being a bore and a boor.Does Puy ring a faint bell?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But that's exactly what it is about. The country voted to leave the EU ( via democratic means ). MPs and the likes of Gina Miller have attempted to negate that vote constantly. Despite whatever way you do the maths - constituency based or one person one vote - the decision was to leave. To the point that Corbyn even wants to try install himself as PM without even his party having elector mandate to do so. Yet now a leave leaning government uses (legal) functions at it's disposal to prevent MPs going against the public vote it's suddenly 'undemocratic' !

Come off it. Theresa May got a deal, and it was voted down DEMOCRATICALLY, in Parliament, and those that voted against were not soley those who believe in Remain.
The ERG are hard Brexiters, and voted against her.

Please do not try and pin the blame on Remainers. If it wasn't for the ERG, May would have got her deal through and we would be out of the EU wef 31st March 2019.

Open your eyes and stop making excuses.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Delighted. If any of you gave a shit about democracy then you'd agree we should be out already.

True. It was the ERG - hardline Brexiters who stopped it by opposing Theresa May.
Three times she tried, and it failed.

 

[Two Professors]

Happy to do this and did so on another thread to which I've contributed so this is not really appropriate. And TBH I don't think you really want to know. Your response tells me all I need to know on your position, so many thanks.

Many thanks for your considered reply,but if it's on another thread,then why raise it on here.Oh,and my position includes the pro-environment items I have put forward.

 

[theonlymikey]

But that's exactly what it is about. The country voted to leave the EU ( via democratic means ). MPs and the likes of Gina Miller have attempted to negate that vote constantly. Despite whatever way you do the maths - constituency based or one person one vote - the decision was to leave. To the point that Corbyn even wants to try install himself as PM without even his party having elector mandate to do so. Yet now a leave leaning government uses (legal) functions at it's disposal to prevent MPs going against the public vote it's suddenly 'undemocratic' !

How is preventing no deal going against the public?

I think you are misunderstanding what Brexit is. Intentionally clonflating Brexit and No deal as one. They are not one and the same. Are you intelligent enough to understand this?

Let me make this absolutely clear. This is a rebellion against no deal. Not a rebellion against Brexit. If you had read Labours 2017 manifesto you would know this.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Come off it. Theresa May got a deal, and it was voted down DEMOCRATICALLY, in Parliament, and those that voted against were not soley those who believe in Remain.
The ERG are hard Brexiters, and voted against her.

Please do not try and pin the blame on Remainers. If it wasn't for the ERG, May would have got her deal through and we would be out of the EU wef 31st March 2019.

Open your eyes and stop making excuses.

OK, we've had this discussion before - ERG number ~60. May lost the votes by far more than 60. If MPs had voted based on their constituency results in the referendum then we would be out already. Now those remainer MPs are bitching about lack of democracy. We're at this point precisely because of people like Dominic Grieve.

 

[Two Professors]

Well done Boris.This Parliamentary session should have finished at least a year ago.Returning some normality might wake up the loonier swivel-eyed remoaners.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How is preventing no deal going against the public?

I think you are misunderstanding what Brexit is. Intentionally clonflating Brexit and No deal as one. They are not one and the same. Are you intelligent enough to understand this?

Let me make this absolutely clear. This is a rebellion against no deal. Not a rebellion against Brexit. If you had read Labours 2017 manifesto you would know this.

Labour, until recently, have always sat on the fence. Now all of a sudden Corbyn thinks he can force his way into number 10 and suggest he now wants another referendum.

 

[daveinplzen]

Just look it up Dave,and stop being a bore and a boor.Does Puy ring a faint bell?

Bullshit. You have been caught out lying. Not for the first time. Run Forrest.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Bullshit. You have been caught out lying. Not for the first time. Run Forrest.

Quite. [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION] is a liar and a fantasist. It’s proven. And he is so dim that when he got caught out with dates mismatching in his bizarre tales, he tried to back up his tale with further bullshit .....for which he hadn’t again checked the dates. If one is going to lie about oneself to impress people at least ****ing Google it first.....because that’s the first thing we all did.

 

[Simster]

OK, we've had this discussion before - ERG number ~60. May lost the votes by far more than 60. If MPs had voted based on their constituency results in the referendum then we would be out already. Now those remainer MPs are bitching about lack of democracy. We're at this point precisely because of people like Dominic Grieve.

But the fact that they didn't was down to the fact that they felt the deal on the table wasn't in the best interests of the country - it's their job to vote like that.

You are absolutely right in saying that parliament has a job to deliver Brexit, but the issue here is that the Tories started off by putting in insane red lines. Out of the customs union, out of the single market, get rid of the Irish backstop - the problem is that doing all those things makes a sensible Brexit absolutely impossible. Do you honestly think this referendum would have ended up leave if we had been told that the only way out was a hasty, expensive no deal?

I'm a remainer as you know, and I would be "happy" to see the result respected if it had been implemented without these stupid Tory-defined red lines in place. We should already be enjoying an EFTA-like relationship with the EU. There is absolutely no mandate for where we are now.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting development today. He clearly wants a fight. Now is the time to crush Boris once and for all.

 

[theonlymikey]

Labour, until recently, have always sat on the fence. Now all of a sudden Corbyn thinks he can force his way into number 10 and suggest he now wants another referendum.

Evasive as per.

And wrong, as per.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

Labour Maifesto page 24 - negotiating Brexit reads:

"Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first. "

The same manifesto goes on to say:

"Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade."

Lets focus on democracy though shall we?

The 2017 GE voting share : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results

Over 52% of people voted for Anti No Deal and Remain parties.

Furthermore, the 40% vote share of conservatives includes votes for the Scottish Conservatives whose leader opposes no deal.

Every single reputable poll indicates less than 30% of the people think that No Deal qwill be a satisfactory outcome. The people who think it will be a good outcome is even less.

This is not about democracy. It's right in front of your eyes, yet you will not see?

 

[Fungus]

Yes, I've signed. It was over 11K an hour ago.

55k and climbing...

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Many thanks for your considered reply,but if it's on another thread,then why raise it on here.Oh,and my position includes the pro-environment items I have put forward.

Without getting tedious, I raised it here because of the (probable/possible) link between climate denial and being pro Brexit. The other thread to which I referred was one about changing your lifestyle in the light of climate change. It was actually a lot more cheerful and positive than much of what we get on this thread. I did list a few things that I've done in this respect. As you are pro-environment, you'd have liked it.
.