[Politics] Brexit

[Raleigh Chopper]

So Jeremy Hunt said this morning he would go through with No Deal but with a heavy heart and tell the business owners and their employees who lose their livelihoods that it was worth it.

That's nice. I'm sure when they've found themselves out of work and struggling to get by utterly needlessly, possibly finding themselves homeless and with a strong chance of losing absolutely everything, including their pensions, they'll be comforted to know multi-millionaire Jeremy Hunt will feel about having done something he didn't need to do.

All differences aside that is totally shocking, unemployment is a price worth paying part 2.
Seriously, what is the matter with these Tories, and people actually back them up and vote for them.
It's extraordinary.

 

[drew]

So Jeremy Hunt said this morning he would go through with No Deal but with a heavy heart and tell the business owners and their employees who lose their livelihoods that it was worth it.

That's nice. I'm sure when they've found themselves out of work and struggling to get by utterly needlessly, possibly finding themselves homeless and with a strong chance of losing absolutely everything, including their pensions, they'll be comforted to know multi-millionaire Jeremy Hunt will feel about having done something he didn't need to do.

I suspect part of the problem is that most of them are insulated from whatever happens to the economy in that they probably have paid off their mortgage and are sitting on final salary pension schemes!!

 

[golddene]

I suspect part of the problem is that most of them are insulated from whatever happens to the economy in that they probably have paid off their mortgage and are sitting on final salary pension schemes!!

You describe me there but I'm an ardent remainer and have had many fall outs with friends and family who "some" are in very vulnerable positions and are the polar opposite to my position which is so weird.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

All differences aside that is totally shocking, unemployment is a price worth paying part 2.
Seriously, what is the matter with these Tories, and people actually back them up and vote for them.
It's extraordinary.

At least Hunt, as a businessman, recognises that the most important thing in this country is to help the wealth creating sector, the employers. By proposing a cut in corporation tax ( which greatly reduces the ability of many companies to re-invest ) he identifies the stimulation the economy needs. A tweaking of VAT would help as well but lets not get too greedy.
Hunt is playing a game of double-bluff re No Deal. Surely people can see this. He knows the ramifications. He knows the huge risks. He is shadowing Boris but all the time planning to outflank him. Wait til the final outcome between the two and if Hunt gets in, you will see a change in direction.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Seeing as the EU have said they have are not changing the withdrawal agreement apart from some minor details ,i would be interested what posters think the EU strategy is as in they are not worried about no deal .If they are not going to budge how is it going to pan out bearing in mind there won`t be any one to negotiate with before 31 Oct .Not having a go at the EU just curious how we are going to get a deal at all .

As far as the EU is concerned, they have signed a deal with the UK an that could be 'end of'. I've never subscribed to the 'let them blink before us' tactic (underpinned by the rubbish that thy need us etc). However, I think there must be some very serious thinking going on within the EU (according to Katya Adler they have been 'gaming' a Johnson victory for a while) and there must be an issue with respect to the catastrophic effects that a no-deal Brexit will have on Ireland for one.

I wouldn't therefore rule out some sort of 'fudged' outcome but god knows how we (and they) will get there. The trouble is that we have one potential PM who has totally painted himself into a corner and one who at least has to pretend to talk tough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All differences aside that is totally shocking, unemployment is a price worth paying part 2.
Seriously, what is the matter with these Tories, and people actually back them up and vote for them.
It's extraordinary.

Astonishingly cavalier and heartless. But to be expected from Tories and their supporters.

The Tories have a majority of just three (I think). I read that if a handful of Tories do not side with Hunt or Boris there’s no majority and a constitutional issue. Could be interesting.

 

[Eeyore]

So how do remainers feel now ? Given that a majority on NSC are, it would be interesting to see a poll.

My position is that I'm okay with the leaving thing but under no circumstances without a proper deal in place.

I sense that quite a few leavers feel the same way.

So, basically, if it's true that less than 40% of the country as a whole accept no deal then, as the issue has moved on, the Tory leadership candidates are going against the wishes of the nation to strengthen their own position.

And that over something they cannot deliver anyway.

Strange times.

We've been in the EU nearly 50 years. I'm sure we can wait a little longer.

Leave means leave. But only when we can give some security to the nations future. It still defies logic that some would want to leave before then to satisfy their own egos- and accept others suffering as collateral damage.

 

[wellquickwoody]

So how do remainers feel now ? Given that a majority on NSC are, it would be interesting to see a poll.

My position is that I'm okay with the leaving thing but under no circumstances without a proper deal in place.

I sense that quite a few leavers feel the same way.

So, basically, if it's true that less than 40% of the country as a whole accept no deal then, as the issue has moved on, the Tory leadership candidates are going against the wishes of the nation to strengthen their own position.

And that over something they cannot deliver anyway.

Strange times.

We've been in the EU nearly 50 years. I'm sure we can wait a little longer.

Leave means leave. But only when we can give some security to the nations future. It still defies logic that some would want to leave before then to satisfy their own egos- and accept others suffering as collateral damage.

As a confirmed remainer, I believe the UK should leave the EU by the current deadline at the latest. I think the decision of the electorate needs to be respected to ensure that belief in the democratic process is maintained. A deal is obviously preferable to no deal, but the exit needs to happen to avoid the British parliamentary democracy turning into even more of a basket case than it has already become.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

So how do remainers feel now ? Given that a majority on NSC are, it would be interesting to see a poll.

My position is that I'm okay with the leaving thing but under no circumstances without a proper deal in place.

I sense that quite a few leavers feel the same way.

So, basically, if it's true that less than 40% of the country as a whole accept no deal then, as the issue has moved on, the Tory leadership candidates are going against the wishes of the nation to strengthen their own position.

And that over something they cannot deliver anyway.

Strange times.

We've been in the EU nearly 50 years. I'm sure we can wait a little longer.

Leave means leave. But only when we can give some security to the nations future. It still defies logic that some would want to leave before then to satisfy their own egos- and accept others suffering as collateral damage.

Leave with EFTA/EEA deal > Remain > Leave with *no deal* ( catastrophic ).

 

[WATFORD zero]

So how do remainers feel now ? Given that a majority on NSC are, it would be interesting to see a poll.

My position is that I'm okay with the leaving thing but under no circumstances without a proper deal in place.

I sense that quite a few leavers feel the same way.

So, basically, if it's true that less than 40% of the country as a whole accept no deal then, as the issue has moved on, the Tory leadership candidates are going against the wishes of the nation to strengthen their own position.

And that over something they cannot deliver anyway.

Strange times.

We've been in the EU nearly 50 years. I'm sure we can wait a little longer.

Leave means leave. But only when we can give some security to the nations future. It still defies logic that some would want to leave before then to satisfy their own egos- and accept others suffering as collateral damage.

Can't see any benefits to staying in the customs union with no input whatsoever, so still 100% remain for me.

 

[WATFORD zero]

As a confirmed remainer, I believe the UK should leave the EU by the current deadline at the latest. I think the decision of the electorate needs to be respected to ensure that belief in the democratic process is maintained. A deal is obviously preferable to no deal, but the exit needs to happen to avoid the British parliamentary democracy turning into even more of a basket case than it has already become.

We know you are a confirmed remainer, you always tell us that before you tell how we should leave the EU with or without a deal.

So to avoid turning parliament into a basket case, we should turn the country into one?

Interesting approach, but as I may have mentioned before, 'no deal' is certainly not happening in the next 3 years, let alone 4 months.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Can't see any benefits to staying in the customs union with no input whatsoever, so still 100% remain for me.

A customs union ( arrangement ) saves the UK car industry ( and just in time supply chains ).

The real big prize is EFTA with EEA membership ( similar to Norway ), at least until we can take the 10 years or so to negotiate a proper Switzerland type deal.

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1087742241383350272?s=19

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1073867169723756544?s=19

 

[The Clamp]

Although we will almost certainly be leaving soon, how can anyone with any sense see this as anything but total folly. As far as I’m concerned government is in place to act in our best interests. Leaving is the opposite of that. Time for someone to make the brave but essential decision and reverse article 50. A few feathers will be ruffled. So be it.

 

[Mellotron]

My position is that I'm okay with the leaving thing but under no circumstances without a proper deal in place.

Yup. A very soft Brexit is the fairest compromise and the best chance of helping heal division in the country. However, Brexiteers are pushing so hard for Hard Brexit that they are risking losing Brexit altogether.

We could've (and perhaps should've) been out months ago on a Soft Brexit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

A customs union ( arrangement ) saves the UK car industry ( and just in time supply chains ).

The real big prize is EEA membership ( similar to Norway ), at least until we can take the 10 years or so to negotiate a proper Switzerland type deal.

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1087742241383350272?s=19

https://twitter.com/AdrianYalland/status/1073867169723756544?s=19

I meant I couldn't see any benefits of any sort of soft Brexit over remaining, and continuing to have significant input into all of these areas and all our various opt-outs that we have negotiated over the last 40 years

*edit* There is the advantage that some people would save face, but at a ridiculous cost to the country

 

[Seaber]

So how do remainers feel now ? Given that a majority on NSC are, it would be interesting to see a poll.

...

We've been in the EU nearly 50 years. I'm sure we can wait a little longer.

Leave means leave. But only when we can give some security to the nations future. It still defies logic that some would want to leave before then to satisfy their own egos- and accept others suffering as collateral damage.

I don't think we should leave, but there is no reason to leave until there is a deal in place that gets through parliament or a people's vote. Doesn't matter if that takes a week or a decade, the referendum never mentioned leaving by a certain date, any deadlines have to be pushed back until there is an eventuality that is accepted by parliament or the people.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So how do remainers feel now ? Given that a majority on NSC are, it would be interesting to see a poll.

.

More certain in the belief that Remaining in the EU is the best outcome for the nation, than I ever have been.

Millions of people have talked about little else, in millions of discussions over 4 years, and not one person has come up with a list of quantifiable benefits (that stand up to any kind of scrutiny) of leaving. All they can come up with is a few vague idealistic notions, most of which simply argue against a reality that never existed anyway.

Our economy, our security and our rights are very, very clearly better served by staying.

The opposite view is fed by nothing but insularity, arrogance and ego.

Utterly baffling, the whole thing.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Never mind the fact they used to say there'd be a deal because German car manufacturers would demand one because we held all the aces - just put blind faith in the same people over the fantasy of 'no deal', because it sounds really great and simple (details are for experts anyway and who needs them anymore) and the people saying it are millionaire, privileged Tories with posh English accents, and if you don't feel inherent deference to them when you hear them speak you're being very disrespectful and you don't know your place.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Yup. A very soft Brexit is the fairest compromise and the best chance of helping heal division in the country. However, Brexiteers are pushing so hard for Hard Brexit that they are risking losing Brexit altogether.

We could've (and perhaps should've) been out months ago on a Soft Brexit.

I can see the case for a hard no-deal Brexit even though I disagree completely with it and can't really see how the details would work.

I can obviously see the case for the 'Germany-plus" option of Remain.

I can see no case at all for a soft Brexit, the vassal state option that sees one of the largest economies on earth turning itself into a mute supplicant of the EU. It's like trying to choose between a left hand turn and a right hand one - compromise and you just drive into the signpost.

I have spent my life being happy to give and take but on this subject I can't recognise the possibilities of sensible compromise. The Brexiteers have got us into a colossal and damaging mess and papering over what they have done will never work in the long run - better to let their ghastly legacy emerge and then get the grown-ups to deal with it.

Or perhaps I am just having a bad start to the week.

 

[CHAPPERS]

The fact that nobody campaigned on a no deal basis should instantly rule the option out entirely. This is such a cluster**** and nobody seems to be able to put this point across properly apart from those guys with the billboards.