[Politics] Brexit

[Mellotron]

I can see the case for a hard no-deal Brexit even though I disagree completely with it and can't really see how the details would work.

I can obviously see the case for the 'Germany-plus" option of Remain.

I can see no case at all for a soft Brexit, the vassal state option that sees one of the largest economies on earth turning itself into a mute supplicant of the EU. It's like trying to choose between a left hand turn and a right hand one - compromise and you just drive into the signpost.

I have spent my life being happy to give and take but on this subject I can't recognise the possibilities of sensible compromise. The Brexiteers have got us into a colossal and damaging mess and papering over what they have done will never work in the long run - better to let their ghastly legacy emerge and then get the grown-ups to deal with it.

Or perhaps I am just having a bad start to the week.

I think the softest of soft Brexits that is basically a Brexit In Name Only that keeps the advantages of the EU, yet placates the furious Brexiteer on the street who only cares about winning (even though they won't have done, but will think they have) is the best compromise.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Jeremy Hunt

A new political negotiating team will be convened with members of the ERG, the DUP, members of the One Nation Group and Welsh and Scottish Conservatives. It will be led by the Brexit Secretary and supported at an official level by Crawford Falconer. He will be supported by top experts from around the world. They will be tasked with producing an alternative exit deal, based on the alternative arrangements proposals, that can command a majority in the House of Commons and addresses, seriously and forensically, legitimate EU and Irish concerns about the Irish border and the integrity of the single market. This plan will be published by the end of August.

So ridiculous.

 

[wellquickwoody]

We know you are a confirmed remainer, you always tell us that before you tell how we should leave the EU with or without a deal.

So to avoid turning parliament into a basket case, we should turn the country into one?

Interesting approach, but as I may have mentioned before, 'no deal' is certainly not happening in the next 3 years, let alone 4 months.

Hold on to your hat!

 

[Triggaaar]

So Jeremy Hunt said this morning he would go through with No Deal but with a heavy heart and tell the business owners and their employees who lose their livelihoods that it was worth it.

That's nice. I'm sure when they've found themselves out of work and struggling to get by utterly needlessly, possibly finding themselves homeless and with a strong chance of losing absolutely everything, including their pensions, they'll be comforted to know multi-millionaire Jeremy Hunt will feel about having done something he didn't need to do.

I guess the hope is that he's bluffing, in an effort to get a better deal from the EU. Presumably he's less likely to take us out without a deal than Doris?


(that was a typo, but I've decided to leave it)

 

[Triggaaar]

All differences aside that is totally shocking, unemployment is a price worth paying part 2.
Seriously, what is the matter with these Tories, and people actually back them up and vote for them.
It's extraordinary.

To be fair to tory voters, they didn't elect Johnson or Hunt as PM.

 

[Marshy]

I think the softest of soft Brexits that is basically a Brexit In Name Only that keeps the advantages of the EU, yet placates the furious Brexiteer on the street who only cares about winning (even though they won't have done, but will think they have) is the best compromise.

Sounds like May's deal to me....?

 

[ManOfSussex]

I can see the case for a hard no-deal Brexit even though I disagree completely with it and can't really see how the details would work.

I can obviously see the case for the 'Germany-plus" option of Remain.

I can see no case at all for a soft Brexit, the vassal state option that sees one of the largest economies on earth turning itself into a mute supplicant of the EU. It's like trying to choose between a left hand turn and a right hand one - compromise and you just drive into the signpost.

I have spent my life being happy to give and take but on this subject I can't recognise the possibilities of sensible compromise. The Brexiteers have got us into a colossal and damaging mess and papering over what they have done will never work in the long run - better to let their ghastly legacy emerge and then get the grown-ups to deal with it.

Or perhaps I am just having a bad start to the week.

I have thought that if a no deal Brexit occurred, it wouldn't last long, it would serve the benefit of showing the Brexiteers advocating it for what they are, 'respecting the democratic will of the majority' from over 3 years ago is fulfilled and the whole lunacy would be laid bare and then the grown ups will then deal with it. The problem I see however is, amongst the continuing howls of 'Betrayl!' that will occur, the blame game will be played at a very, very high tempo - it wont be their fault, it'll be the fault of The EU/foreigners/immigrants/Muslims/Jeremy Corbyn/Remoners/experts/Guardian readers etc etc, and a problem will arise from this for the grown ups because of the 2 epidemics that have broken out in this country over recent years:

1. 'Numbnutery' which if left untreated can lead to chronic or terminal 'Dumb****ery' - an example of this would be the MP's Owen Paterson and Iain Duncan-Smith and people who believe what they say. Delusions are the worst symptoms in this one I feel.

2. 'Broflakery' which if left untreated, and combined with environmental factors such as being English and being exposed to The Sun/The Mail/The Express/The Guido Fawkes website, can lead to terminal or chronic 'Gammonery' - a horrendous condition which in many cases can present a plethora of horrifying symptoms such as reading The Daily Telegraph on a train, obsessional thoughts about The Right Honourable Member of Parliament for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (I wont name her - it could trigger high blood pressure and convulsions for anyone infected reading this) and using the phrase 'political correctness gone mad'.

These are not exclusively male conditions either - Melanie Phillips of The Times is a classic case of a female sufferer who ignored all the symptoms when they first manifested themselves and is now terminally afflicted by both diseases.

I still live in hope that the grown ups can emerge and save us from the infected, but I'm afraid I really have my doubts now because of these 2 epidemics and it certainly won't be easy. As a country we really are up the creek without a paddle.

 

[A1X]

Sounds like May's deal to me....?

May's deal is a lot harder than that. BRINO doesn't take us out of the Single Market.

 

[A1X]

I still live in hope that the grown ups can emerge and save us from the infected, but I'm afraid I really have my doubts now because of these 2 epidemics and it certainly won't be easy. As a country we really are up the creek without a paddle.

The problem is nobody is listening to the grown ups, they're denounced as "Remaoners", "Enemies of the People" and even "traitors".

As for Melanie Phillips, after she was quoted extensively in Anders Breivik's "manifesto" which he used to justify murdering several people it's extraordinary she's still employed. Utterly extraordinary.

 

[The Clamp]

More certain in the belief that Remaining in the EU is the best outcome for the nation, than I ever have been.

Millions of people have talked about little else, in millions of discussions over 4 years, and not one person has come up with a list of quantifiable benefits (that stand up to any kind of scrutiny) of leaving. All they can come up with is a few vague idealistic notions, most of which simply argue against a reality that never existed anyway.

Our economy, our security and our rights are very, very clearly better served by staying.

The opposite view is fed by nothing but insularity, arrogance and ego.

Utterly baffling, the whole thing.

Perfect. Not one leaver will be able to come up with a credible counter to that.

 

[The Clamp]

Hold on to your hat!

He makes a very good point . You’re a leaver through and through.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Same old suspects kidding themselves about staying in the EU # muggy Monday
regards
DR

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Same old suspects kidding themselves about staying in the EU # muggy Monday
regards
DR

This shit goes on all week.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You describe me there but I'm an ardent remainer and have had many fall outs with friends and family who "some" are in very vulnerable positions and are the polar opposite to my position which is so weird.

Why is it weird, I guess they believe in Democracy
and feel betrayed maybe they believe in Britain unlike your types
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

This shit goes on all week.

makes them feel better about themselves I guess
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The problem is nobody is listening to the grown ups, they're denounced as "Remaoners", "Enemies of the People" and even "traitors".

As for Melanie Phillips, after she was quoted extensively in Anders Breivik's "manifesto" which he used to justify murdering several people it's extraordinary she's still employed. Utterly extraordinary.

I'm better than you remoaner, sooooooo predictable no wonder they've been sulking for so long, who would have thought that
they were wrong
regards
DR

 

[daveinplzen]

If the Brexiteers on this thread are examples of 'winners', then the future looks a bit fecking grim... good luck.

 

[daveinplzen]

This shit goes on all week.

Until some leavers, publish some verifiable positives regarding Brexit, then it probably will carry on. As none of you are capable of this, what do you expect? You just put yourselves in the firing line to be mocked.

Surprise me.
Give me some coherent positives for the countries future, if the country goes into a no-deal exit.


Keep in mind that previous lies, and mis-truths have been exposed already..
The German car industry didnt go pleading to the EU demanding anything, as many on here predicted.

Leaving the largest trading bloc on the planet to trade with who? Keep in mind, most of the globe is poor, and who from the rest of the world, do we need to make deals with, that we dont trade with already via the EU.

A 70 vehicle exercise on what will happen if there is no deal, was frankly, laughable.

 

[nicko31]

Hunt sets 30th September no deal deadline

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-hunt-pledges-6bn-war-chest-to-handle-no-deal-brexit-11752213

You know what, why not make it end of August.

#cluelesstories

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Hunt sets 30th September no deal deadline

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-hunt-pledges-6bn-war-chest-to-handle-no-deal-brexit-11752213

You know what, why not make it end of August.

#cluelesstories

Why are we shaking the magic money tree for those that voted for Brexit?

They said it would be better off out of the EU, no money should be sent.