[Politics] Brexit

[pb21]

Surely my cleverness is all the evidence you need?

In all seriousness though, I'd say don't bother wasting your time. Leavers are by definition stupid. The only acceptable evidence that they aren't stupid would be to change their minds that being an independant sovereign nation would be a good, non-bigoted, thing.

There is no need to argue that leavers aren't stupid, there's no reason for anyone to suppose that they are, unless people want to. There is one massive benefit to considering people you disagree with stupid - there is no need to engage in thoughtful, respectful, understanding conversation with stupid people. & Thoughtful, understanding and respectful conversation makes things complicated. Because even though you disagree with someone on something, there's every chance that both sides of an argument have valid points. That's a massive inconvenience if you are into demagoguery and self righteousness.

What is 'an independent sovereign nation'?

Edit: Here is a definition:

"Sovereignty is the power of a state to do everything necessary to govern itself, such as making, executing, and applying laws; imposing and collecting taxes; making war and peace; and forming treaties or engaging in commerce with foreign nations."

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sovereign+nation

As far as I can tell the UK state is able to everything necessary to govern itself, such as making, executing, and applying laws; imposing and collecting taxes; making war and peace; and forming treaties or engaging in commerce with foreign nations.

 

[dingodan]

What is 'an independent sovereign nation'?

Which word are you having trouble with?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

 

[pb21]

Which word are you having trouble with?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

Sorry just edited my original post, as you posted your response.

Regardless, you have posted links that demonstrate that the UK is currently an independent sovereign nation.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The only acceptable evidence that they aren't stupid would be to change their minds that being an independant sovereign nation would be a good, non-bigoted, thing.

If you believe that we are not an independent sovereign nation now, but will be after leaving the EU, then you are stupid.

 

[nicko31]

It seems impossible to even get a Leave voter to do that, despite the evidence for the potential disaster that confronts us.

You can lead a horse to water... *sigh*

I'll admit for a long time I really did think a lot of leavers would come round to objectivity, but what I completely missed and its taken me a long time to understand is that to many facts don't matter.

Its tribal, almost like football. You pick a side and that's it...

 

[nicko31]

Sorry just edited my original post, as you posted your response.

Regardless, you have posted links that demonstrate that the UK is currently an independent sovereign nation.

Just like the other 27 members of the EU.

 

[Lever]

I'll admit for a long time I really did think a lot of leavers would come round to objectivity, but what I completely missed and its taken me a long time to understand is that to many facts don't matter.

Its tribal, almost like football. You pick a side and that's it...

It's visceral.... all debate is pointless and I know that - but I cannot accept obvious misconceptions and outright lies posted by some Leave voters (not all) on here, without calling them out. I am not alone in that.

 

[dingodan]

Sorry just edited my original post, as you posted your response.

Regardless, you have posted links that demonstrate that the UK is currently an independent sovereign nation.

Wow.

Guess there's no need to leave the EU then.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

It's visceral.... all debate is pointless and I know that - but I cannot accept obvious misconceptions and outright lies posted by some Leave voters (not all) on here, without calling them out. I am not alone in that.

Indeed. But Leavers Disunited is a team that specialises in scoring own goals, plays shockingly badly, has a corrupt board of directors and attracts some very dubious supporters.

 

[pb21]

Wow.

Guess there's no need to leave the EU then.

Absolutely not if the basis for leaving the EU is because being an independent sovereign nation is a good, non-bigoted, thing.

 

[dingodan]

So guys, help me out here.

What are the costs/negatives of being in the EU?

Why would anyone want to leave?

What's all the fuss about?

 

[Lever]

Wow.

Guess there's no need to leave the EU then.

If you have the time and inclination, this was written prior to the referendum and may help you with this issue....

https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/...05-09-britain-eu-sovereignty-myth-niblett.pdf

 

[birthofanorange]

So guys, help me out here.

What are the costs/negatives of being in the EU?

Why would anyone want to leave?

What's all the fuss about?

Well, there's all those nasty EU Laws that are foisted upon us, that nobody seemed to bother about prior to the referendum, and which people struggle to list when asked now.....for starters.

Then, of course, there's the imminent risk of being conscripted into the EU army, which is being massed as we speak, but that's counterbalanced by those Leavers who are convinced that the EU will collapse in the none too distant future.

Oh, and don't forget having the Euro forced upon us, as we did with weights and measures, bent bananas and the ilk.

So many reasons to Leave.....

 

[daveinplzen]

Well, there's all those nasty EU Laws that are foisted upon us, that nobody seemed to bother about prior to the referendum, and which people struggle to list when asked now.....for starters.

Then, of course, there's the imminent risk of being conscripted into the EU army, which is being massed as we speak, but that's counterbalanced by those Leavers who are convinced that the EU will collapse in the none too distant future.

Oh, and don't forget having the Euro forced upon us, as we did with weights and measures, bent bananas and the ilk.

So many reasons to Leave.....

More chance of the Union collapsing than the EU thanks to these cockwombles.

 

[birthofanorange]

More chance of the Union collapsing than the EU thanks to these cockwombles.

That doesn't matter, because we're Leaving...on a jet plane.

 

[Is it PotG?]

That doesn't matter, because we're Leaving...on a jet plane.

One can only hope, for the sake of Democracy.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Well, there's all those nasty EU Laws that are foisted upon us, that nobody seemed to bother about prior to the referendum, and which people struggle to list when asked now.....for starters.

Then, of course, there's the imminent risk of being conscripted into the EU army, which is being massed as we speak, but that's counterbalanced by those Leavers who are convinced that the EU will collapse in the none too distant future.

Oh, and don't forget having the Euro forced upon us, as we did with weights and measures, bent bananas and the ilk.

So many reasons to Leave.....

Many, many more than those obvious ones.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Well, there's all those nasty EU Laws that are foisted upon us, that nobody seemed to bother about prior to the referendum, and which people struggle to list when asked now.....for starters.

Then, of course, there's the imminent risk of being conscripted into the EU army, which is being massed as we speak, but that's counterbalanced by those Leavers who are convinced that the EU will collapse in the none too distant future.

Oh, and don't forget having the Euro forced upon us, as we did with weights and measures, bent bananas and the ilk.

So many reasons to Leave.....

You are TOO BLOODY RIGHT!

Then there's all those foreigners who come over here and pester our old folk to take their meds and have cups of tea and pick OUR fruit which would otherwise rot nicely in the fields not to mention all those foreign students who make our kids look a bit plain by comparison.

 

[birthofanorange]

Many, many more than those obvious ones.

Pray, tell?

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Well, there's all those nasty EU Laws that are foisted upon us, that nobody seemed to bother about prior to the referendum, and which people struggle to list when asked now.....for starters.

Then, of course, there's the imminent risk of being conscripted into the EU army, which is being massed as we speak, but that's counterbalanced by those Leavers who are convinced that the EU will collapse in the none too distant future.

Oh, and don't forget having the Euro forced upon us, as we did with weights and measures, bent bananas and the ilk.

So many reasons to Leave.....

Well of course no Leaver can come up with any good and valid reasons to exit the EU. They are all the sub-species. Neanderthal, ill educated, racist, xenophobic thicko's. As opposed to the intelligent elite who know what is good for everybody and know for sure that nothing can possibly better what we have now, being members of this very privileged club.
Only problem is, quite a few of the members got into trouble a while back and the more well- heeled members wouldn't help them out. Drown in your own Ouzo, Chianti, Port and Sangria was the answer. Really helpful, that. Never mind the vast swathes of youth unemployment, I'm alright Jack in my area of heavy industrialised Europe, gaining all the benefits of tariff free trading and banking corruption and owning a lot of the utilities and infrastructure in dear old Blighty.
Still, I suppose there are going to be casualties in the pursuit of globalism. It is created for the benefit of all, just so long as you are at the front of the queue. Its protectionism is its strength and weakness. Maintaining good business throughout the EU, losing ground with the rest of the world. Expansionism has a limited life. Who knows how long? It could be 10 years, it could be 50 years. Europe is ever changing and no one is more aware of that than the French and Germans. That is why they are covering themselves strategically within the EU.
I'm off down the pub to spout my racist bile and start a campaign for Anna Soubry to be PM. She has shown she can be a powerful force for change.