[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

And as usual you avoid answering a question .... I'll give you a clue, when a sentence ends with ? it means it's a question and you could deem to answer.

I didn't bother because you ask the question

Really ? Care to quote any post I've been abusive BECAUSE of the points you mention ? .

and then in the same post you then explain why you keep being abusive

I become abusive when we get the repetitive same question ( from you ), which has been answered numerous times, but you choose to ignore the answers. I also get abusive when we get posters like Lever who come across as complete arrogant w@nkers and post comments trying to put down someone else's viewpoint. By all means argue the point but don't post like a w@anker. I'm not surprised I get abusive having being called a racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc. Basically anyone that has used those terms can fvck off - their view is worth rat shit.

Ironically using a string of abuse

And do you want to show me below where I have ignored your answers, because it looks to me like I have addressed each and every one of them

Sigh .... One last time

1. A United Ireland is, as you point out, not going to happen.
2. A good deal including no border in Ireland but without a customs union. This is the 'ideal solution' that you were sold at the referendum, but has proven to be impossible to negotiate, deliver or even define. (Note: I have avoided the word 'fantasy').
3. No deal. This is possible but will take 10s of Billions of pounds in infrastructure costs, will take several years to implement and will entail putting a Border and customs between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Maybe if we had begun building customs posts, lorry parks, IT infrastructure, designing and building systems and recruiting and training staff straight after the referendum maybe we could be operationally ready by now, 3 years later (completely ignoring any economic or political impact). Personally, I think it would have taken longer than 3 years, but who knows ?
4. May's deal. (Don't forget, this doesn't do away with the seemingly unsolvable border issue, it simply defaults to Customs Union and renames it 'the backstop'). This doesn't seem to satisfy the Leave voters according to the most vocal Brexit supporters on here.

Of course a country can leave the EU.

But unless you can suggest another alternative, you have two options, neither of which Brexit supporters seem to be able to agree on, and each time I point this out to you, you simply become abusive

So what are you going for, Customs Union or Hard Border ? (that's a question)

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Do you actually own, or run a business, which trades internationally? I am willing to bet not. Because if you did, you’d understand there is no “more” than the world’s biggest trading block across the channel.

I doubt very many ( if any ) on this thread, fall into that category or even run their own businesses, employing staff and trying to wealth create. Working over 60 hours every week, paying taxes and pensions for employees and learning how, when times are not so good, that you are last in line to get paid.
Hands up who falls into this category and then we can form a select club of sufferers, who never have the opportunity of putting themselves first and bemoaning what they are going to lose out on.

 

[Baldseagull]

And this sums up exactly where we are with Brexit.

One of the most lucid Brexit supporters, when faced with the now patently obvious options of a Hard Border or a Customs Union, cannot add anything to the discussion so reverts to a string of abuse.

Maybe a critique of why the same repetitive binary question is wrong ? Maybe a brief outline of how an alternative solution would work ?

Your 2 solutions to date - A united Ireland that you say won't happen
A negotiated solution without a Hard Border or Customs Union which you can't define

So an impossibility or a fantasy - other than that Nothing, Zilch, Nada

Just strings of abuse. You have now managed to put yourself into that same group as Two profs, Ppf who are incapable of adding anything to the discussion.

The reason you and the rest of your little gang are getting so angry and abusive is nothing to do with any abuse you have received. I'm willing to bet that the terms 'racist, a fool, an idiot, a thicko, a xenophobe, a little Englander etc etc etc' have been quoted far more frequently by Leavers than Remainers.

It's because you have managed to box yourself completely into a corner and have finally realised there is no way out

Now I wonder what sort of response I will get

To be fair to Leave supporters, Leave Politicians do not understand the details and issues fully, and make inaccurate statements frequently about what is or is not possible, what is or is not democratic and what is or is not in the best interests of UK citizens.
The exceptions to this are worse, they know the truth but skirt round it or just outright lie.
I think Westdene is on his way to figuring this out, he isn't daft, just emotionally invested in Brexit, IMHO. It's a bit like when you tell your mate you saw his girlfriend with another bloke, he is quite likely to call you a liar and cut you out of his life, as he is more emotionally invested in her than you.

 

[WATFORD zero]

To be fair to Leave supporters, Leave Politicians do not understand the details and issues fully, and make inaccurate statements frequently about what is or is not possible, what is or is not democratic and what is or is not in the best interests of UK citizens.
The exceptions to this are worse, they know the truth but skirt round it or just outright lie.
I think Westdene is on his way to figuring this out, he isn't daft, just emotionally invested in Brexit, IMHO. It's a bit like when you tell your mate you saw his girlfriend with another bloke, he is quite likely to call you a liar and cut you out of his life, as he is more emotionally invested in her than you.

Agree completely. I know Westdene has a genuine dislike for the EU and 'big' government in general and this is what drives his Brexit agenda and I can understand some of his reasoning.

Funnily enough, I am not a great fan of certain aspects of the EU but see it as almost a 'necessary evil' of a 21st century economy. If you are going to have multi national companies, organisations and interests, then the only way of keeping them in check is with multi national government.

Of the 3 options we currently have, I think that staying in the EU is the least worst by far. I really can't see the point of staying in the customs Union but having no input, and deciding to leave the largest trading bloc completely and 'go it alone' under WTO is operationally a complete fantasy without 10s of billions of investment over a good few years and economically throwing our self off the cliff. (And any politician who says otherwise are either incompetent or corrupt). And that is completely ignoring the political implications of reintroducing the border.

If we actually elected MEPs that turned up, worked hard and represented Britain's interests, who knows how much we could improve things, but if the last three years is anything to go by, we will carry on shooting ourselves in the foot and then whining that it's everyone else's fault

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Oh dear,this is really becoming tiresome.We already trade with some countries under WTO rules,and the GFA is perfectly ok now.If we trade with other countries under WTO and keep the border as it is on our side,the only side that can break the GFA is the Republic,under orders from Brussels.The EU already turn a blind eye to other such arrangements,the most recent being the one between Italy and the Italian speaking cantonment in Switzerland,so given good will,no problem.

I'm not so sure you'd be comfortable with the Swiss precedent: the Swiss make payments for the privilege of their special relationship and where they do have a range of specific bi-lateral arrangements with the EU on trade then they become rule-takers. So much for taking back control of 'our money' and 'our laws'? But good to see you engaging in detailed (if wholly unconvincing) responses. It could be that the UK emerges from this ghastly process with some kind of special negotiated arrangements with the EU (the infamous 'red, white and blue Brexit') but it's the ERG and pals who are in effect big players in stopping this from happening.

 

[Dick Head]

I think Dick Head was being a touch sarcastic, was he not?

A touch? A TOUCH? I was being earnestly, profoundly and passionately sarcastic. Well understated though, brother.

 

[Dick Head]

Indeed.

The classic "Tinkerbell Theory".

https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1074634063322013696?s=19

Thanks, I enjoyed that. Here's one from the other end of the telescope.

https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/884474494512975872

 

[vegster]

Agree completely. I know Westdene has a genuine dislike for the EU and 'big' government in general and this is what drives his Brexit agenda and I can understand some of his reasoning.

Funnily enough, I am not a great fan of certain aspects of the EU but see it as almost a 'necessary evil' of a 21st century economy. If you are going to have multi national companies, organisations and interests, then the only way of keeping them in check is with multi national government.

Of the 3 options we currently have, I think that staying in the EU is the least worst by far. I really can't see the point of staying in the customs Union but having no input, and deciding to leave the largest trading bloc completely and 'go it alone' under WTO is operationally a complete fantasy without 10s of billions of investment over a good few years and economically throwing our self off the cliff. (And any politician who says otherwise are either incompetent or corrupt). And that is completely ignoring the political implications of reintroducing the border.

If we actually elected MEPs that turned up, worked hard and represented Britain's interests, who knows how much we could improve things, but if the last three years is anything to go by, we will carry on shooting ourselves in the foot and then whining that it's everyone else's fault

I agree, especially with the last sentence. Sadly it looks like Farage's new business will hoover up lots of the disaffected who wish to lash out at the EU and will once more elect a whole load of MEP's who don't want to be there ! insane !

 

[daveinplzen]

Not sure why anybody would want to lash out at the EU, when the problem is in the UK. The EU are just sticking to the rules, that we helped to draft in the first place. I get the feeling that a lot of Brexiteers want all the benefits of the EU without being a member, on the basis that the British should have some sort of special dispensation for being British.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

I doubt very many ( if any ) on this thread, fall into that category or even run their own businesses, employing staff and trying to wealth create. Working over 60 hours every week, paying taxes and pensions for employees and learning how, when times are not so good, that you are last in line to get paid.
Hands up who falls into this category and then we can form a select club of sufferers, who never have the opportunity of putting themselves first and bemoaning what they are going to lose out on.

I don't run a business but I work in a service which provides support to many businesses and people that do. They are generally positive people who try to make the best of any situation but they make decisions based on facts and evidence and the total absence of any of these is paralysing them. This is the case whether they trade internationally or have international supply chains. It isn't impossible to leave the EU in a way that minimises the impact of leaving but it is difficult and is impossible when it is in the hands of the mediocre individuals claiming to drive the process.

 

[nicko31]

Looks like some Geordies don't like the Nige, after a walk with his minders in Newcastle City centre...

 

[A1X]

Aaron Banks is going to have to buy him another suit now

 

[Is it PotG?]

Incidents such as this only back-up the flask thing at The Amex.

Could have been chemicals, could have been highly toxic, and there are eejuts luzzing stuff about.

Flasks OUT

 

[WATFORD zero]

Looks like some Geordies don't like the Nige, after a walk with his minders in Newcastle City centre...

View attachment 109905

He does seem to make people from all sides of the argument very angry, doesn't he. I wonder why

 

[Hamilton]

Incidents such as this only back-up the flask thing at The Amex.

Could have been chemicals, could have been highly toxic, and there are eejuts luzzing stuff about.

Flasks OUT

Agree.

In all seriousness, and as much as I can't stand what the man represents, I do worry about where this will lead. The politicians and media have sewn an undercurrent of hate and that's starting to bubble up.

As a result, I'm not laughing at this stunt. The guy has a right to have a point of view and that point of view needs to be challenged without throwing stuff about.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Aaron Banks is going to have to buy him another suit now

Or more accurately Aaron Banks is going to have to ask his Russian paymasters for more money to buy another suit

 

[A1X]

Meanwhile, while everyone's laughing at his milkshake antics...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...xit-party-offices-funding-gordon-brown-paypal

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Looks like some Geordies don't like the Nige, after a walk with his minders in Newcastle City centre...

View attachment 109905

Maybe he should call a straw poll, then he can suck it up.

 

[Lever]

Agree.

In all seriousness, and as much as I can't stand what the man represents, I do worry about where this will lead. The politicians and media have sewn an undercurrent of hate and that's starting to bubble up.

As a result, I'm not laughing at this stunt. The guy has a right to have a point of view and that point of view needs to be challenged without throwing stuff about.

Yes.... a hate-filled response to the arch hate merchant; things are becoming predictably worse and worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-davis-says-hes-now-voting-against-live-news

Maybe they are becoming radicalised Nige - but who radicalised them if not you?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Agree.

In all seriousness, and as much as I can't stand what the man represents, I do worry about where this will lead. The politicians and media have sewn an undercurrent of hate and that's starting to bubble up.

As a result, I'm not laughing at this stunt. The guy has a right to have a point of view and that point of view needs to be challenged without throwing stuff about.

He is one of the main reasons there has been so much hate whipped up, using language such as traitor and betrayal.