[Politics] Brexit

[darkwolf666]

After 3 years of watching various Leave voters going round in circles getting increasingly angry that they haven't got Brexit, I will try to help and explain in simple terms what you need to do in order to get your Brexit. It really isn't that hard.

The referendum was won by a small majority.

The Government which are trying to implement Brexit also have a small majority.

There are two feasible options for Brexit,
1.'No deal' and a Border in NI,
2 Customs Union.
(Note: I said feasible, there are huge financial, infrastructure, lead times, economic and political issues associated with the first option, so we will stick with feasible).

There are three 'groups' of leavers
1 'No Deal',
2 A deal with a Customs Union, (you can call it 'backstop' if you prefer)
3 'Don't care/understand'

These three groups need to agree which Brexit they want in order to maintain the small majorities from the referendum and in parliament. If you keep on voting against one another, you will not maintain any majority you had and you will not get Brexit.

The EU, Remainers, Squealing Pigs © [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] , Undemocratic Loons © [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] , could not stop Brexit if you could simply agree what it is you want. The only people stopping Brexit are yourselves

Hope this helps

Carry on

The thing is, I fully believe that if the poll was put to the public, with exactly the same question as posed previously, you would still get exactly the same result, or possibly even an increased majority to Leave, that's why Remainers who desire a second referendum want to make it so complicated and with so many options that the Leave vote would become watered down.

Maybe any second referendum, if there were one, should remove Remain as an option, and just spell out the options for Leave.

 

[The Clamp]

That’s a massive leap of faith, British Steel has been going to the wall for years - you’ll be blaming Brexit for Debenhams, HMV, Select, Toys ‘R Us and many other failures.

British Steel hasn’t been able to compete with cheap imports from outside Europe, so staying in Europe wouldn’t make a scrap (metal) of difference!

There is a very good article in the FT*. titled "The long, slow decline of the British Steel industry", if you care to search for it. It may enlighten you, unless you just wish to carry on with cheap point scoring...

*can't seem to add link, without it taking you to the subscription page for the FT...

Brexit had a direct impact on international orders. It has killed it off.

 

[darkwolf666]

Sorry, British Steel has been a dead man walking for decades, long before the spectre of Brexit.

 

[A1X]

Going well innit.

Brexiteers, your vote did this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48347371

They claim they all knew what they were voting for. So they voted for this. And the closure of Honda in Swindon. And the impending closure of Nissan in Sunderland.

 

[A1X]

That’s a massive leap of faith, British Steel has been going to the wall for years - you’ll be blaming Brexit for Debenhams, HMV, Select, Toys ‘R Us and many other failures.

British Steel hasn’t been able to compete with cheap imports from outside Europe, so staying in Europe wouldn’t make a scrap (metal) of difference!

There is a very good article in the FT*. titled "The long, slow decline of the British Steel industry", if you care to search for it. It may enlighten you, unless you just wish to carry on with cheap point scoring...

*can't seem to add link, without it taking you to the subscription page for the FT...

While I largely agree with this, Brexit is still responsible for dealing the decisive blow. Someone can have terminal cancer to go with an underlying heart defect, but if they get smacked round the head with a baseball bat that's still going to be deemed the thing which hastened the demise. And rightly so.

 

[A1X]

After 3 years of watching various Leave voters going round in circles getting increasingly angry that they haven't got Brexit, I will try to help and explain in simple terms what you need to do in order to get your Brexit. It really isn't that complicated.

The referendum was won by a small majority.

The Government which are trying to implement Brexit also have a small majority.

There are two feasible options for Brexit,
1.'No deal' and a Border in NI,
2 A deal with a Customs Union, (you can call it 'backstop' if you prefer).
(Note: I said feasible, there are huge financial, infrastructure, lead times, economic and political issues associated with the first option, so we will stick with feasible).

There are three 'groups' of leavers
1 'No Deal',
2 'Customs Union'
3 'Don't care/understand'

These three groups need to agree which Brexit they want in order to maintain the small majorities from the referendum and in parliament. If you keep on voting against one another, you will not maintain any majority you had and you will not get Brexit.

The EU, Remainers, Squealing Pigs © [MENTION=18265]LadySeagull[/MENTION] , Undemocratic Loons © [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] , could not stop Brexit if you could simply agree what it is you want. The only people stopping Brexit are yourselves

Hope this helps

Carry on

Excellent point. Brexit would have happened by now if Brexiters had voted for the Withdrawal Agreement in Parliament. We'd be out, and would have been for nearly 2 months now. Although Remain / Soft Brexit are just as bad (the EFTA lot refuse to vote for a 2nd referendum and vice versa, for instance).

Eventually one of the two groups (Leave or Remain / Soft Brexit) is going to get their act together, either to decide what Brexit they want or to work out a means of ensuring we don't Brexit at all. Whichever one does it first will win. Ultimately I still believe the end state will end up being something of the EFTA flavour as I can see some Brexiters buying into this on a "just get it done" basis, but who knows.

 

[darkwolf666]

While I largely agree with this, Brexit is still responsible for dealing the decisive blow. Someone can have terminal cancer to go with an underlying heart defect, but if they get smacked round the head with a baseball bat that's still going to be deemed the thing which hastened the demise. And rightly so.

Nice analogy, but doesn't change the fact British Steel was failing, and was probably hampered by European rules that prevented the government providing help (IF they had wanted to).

 

[The Clamp]

As usual, Brexiteers have their version, everyone else has the truth. Not that the truth counts for much in post referendumb England.

 

[The Clamp]

Nice analogy, but doesn't change the fact British Steel was failing, and was probably hampered by European rules that prevented the government providing help (IF they had wanted to).

“Probably” or definitely? Genuine question. How did the EU hamper our government from providing help?

 

[Is it PotG?]

As usual, Brexiteers have their version, everyone else has the truth. Not that the truth counts for much in post referendumb England.

Thank goodness we have a fountain of knowledge such as yourself to educate and guide us.

 

[The Clamp]

Thank goodness we have a beacon of knowledge such as yourself to educate and guide us.

You cannot he educated as you don’t recognise that you have gaps in your knowledge. You won’t be guided as you refuse to believe you are lost, even as you hazard into the quicksand.

 

[Is it PotG?]

You cannot he educated as you don’t recognise that you have gaps in your knowledge. You won’t be guided as you refuse to believe you are lost, even as you hazard into the quicksand.

 

[darkwolf666]

“Probably” or definitely? Genuine question. How did the EU hamper our government from providing help?

This article from the BBC may help, granted it is 3 years old, but I doubt much has changed since then, considering our current relationship with our neighbours.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

 

[The Clamp]

View attachment 109968

“Flowers are essentially tarts. Prostitutes for the bees”.
Montague Withnail.

 

[The Clamp]

This article from the BBC may help, granted it is 3 years old, but I doubt much has changed since then, considering our current relationship with our neighbours.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

Informative, thank you.

 

[Lever]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35933904

Interesting. Responses to the failing British Steel Company are predictable and we have seen it before with other prominent companies. The reasons for the failure are more complex.

As a Remainer, I am anticipating bad news about services and industries in this country because of Brexit; Leavers assert that, whatever it is that is going under has been on a downward trajectory for some time i.e. Brexit isn't the reason.

It turns out that it isn't what others tell us about these matters, it's what we tell ourselves that counts. Who knew?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Andrea Jenkyns flailing around sums things up nicely for me

[tweet]1130802454042427392[/tweet]

Also in the same programme she made a point of refusing to advocate that people vote for her own party.

 

[A1X]

Also in the same programme she made a point of refusing to advocate that people vote for her own party.

Hesseltine got kicked out for this. I assume the same rules apply here?

 

[The Clamp]

Andrea Jenkyns flailing around sums things up nicely for me

[tweet]1130802454042427392[/tweet]

Also in the same programme she made a point of refusing to advocate that people vote for her own party.

Christ.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

As usual, Brexiteers have their version, everyone else has the truth. Not that the truth counts for much in post referendumb England.

You sound seriously depressed.
How the hell are you going to cope when the unthinkable happens ( no, not Brexit ) and the EU starts to disintegrate. If you think Brexit is disastrous wait til you see this fallout!
Still, just to cheer you up, there will be a Franco-German alliance to try and join. Only trouble is, there will still be plenty of thicko's left who will want no part of it