[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

Do you also agree with David Lammy that parents should be allowed to smack their children, and the fact that they cannot is a reason for out-of-control youth behaviour? I would be interested to know your view.

I will say this for him, although he says some silly things, he is brave on standing against the mainstream on this and other views (a bit like Jordan Peterson). He is also against Jeremy Corbyn, which is always a good sign.

Yes, as long as it isn't done in temper and only as a last resort. There are many forms of punishment like the naughty step, time out, withdrawal of games etc. Just one example, my son kept trying to put his finger in an electric socket (this was 1970s when there were different types of sockets) and I tried everything, moving furniture, telling him no, moving him etc. I was almost scared to turn my back. In the end, I smacked his hand. It worked.

I do think there are lazy parents, who keep saying things like Don't do that, but don't do anything to stop the child doing that.
On the way home on Saturday, on the top deck of the bus, three mothers with five children allowing them to run up and down the bus, playing on the stairs whilst the bus is moving, and the mothers doing nothing about it. I'm surprised the driver didn't stop the bus to say something.

 

[Baldseagull]

So you are in agreement with equality and no discrimination.

How on earth does that sit comfortably with the fact that you don't mind some parts of the UK having the right to self determination but you do not think one part should? Or is it just Scotland that can vote to leave but not Northern Ireland and Wales?

Bloody hell, I don't think it is an issue for English people is what I said, in the same way that gender equality is not really an issue for men, racial eqaulity is not such an issue for white people and sexual orientation is not a big problem for heterosexuals. If Scottish political will was dominating UK politics, it would be different, but it isn't. Occasionally we get a UK Government that would not have won without Scottish seats, but more often than not, the UK gets what England voted in.
This is going round in circles, and I am not entertaining it any longer.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

This chain is depressing

https://twitter.com/tortoise/status/1117358117392658433?s=21

 

[Thunder Bolt]

This chain is depressing

https://twitter.com/tortoise/status/1117358117392658433?s=21

It's more than depressing, it's frightening.

 

[Baldseagull]

I thought they held a majority of seats forcing Hindenberg to make Hitler Chancellor? I can’t pretend to have a vast knowledge of the politics of that era though and fully accept I may be mistaken.

They didn't have a majority, but were the largest party.

 

[Baldseagull]

This chain is depressing

https://twitter.com/tortoise/status/1117358117392658433?s=21

That is bloody awful.

 

[Gwylan]

I thought they held a majority of seats forcing Hindenberg to make Hitler Chancellor? I can’t pretend to have a vast knowledge of the politics of that era though and fully accept I may be mistaken.

No, they were the largest party in the Reichstag but, as Mo says, they never had an actual majority. However, they did enter into an alliance with the DNVP, which enabled them to ban other parties and dissolve the Reichstag.

What really helped Hitler's rise to power was the antipathy of the parties of the centre and left to each other, Hitler exploited this ruthlessly. It's part of the reason he came to absolute power with such a reduced share of the vote

 

[The Clamp]

No, they were the largest party in the Reichstag but, as Mo says, they never had an actual majority. However, they did enter into an alliance with the DNVP, which enabled them to ban other parties and dissolve the Reichstag.

What really helped Hitler's rise to power was the antipathy of the parties of the centre and left to each other, Hitler exploited this ruthlessly. It's part of the reason he came to absolute power with such a reduced share of the vote

Thank you, much appreciated.

 

[Triggaaar]

Wow, the noisy 19% of Albion leavers revealed in full. Aaron Banks will be adding them to his database as we speak

Yeah, add anyone who disagrees with you to an ignore list - great way to be open minded.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Apart from the CAP and abiding by the law, the rest of that list can be had by remaining also. I think those things become more likely for the UK if we leave, as at some point we will rejoin, and may not get the freedom of choice we currently have.

Indeed, but this is balanced by the need to respect the 2016 referendum ( even though it was deeply flawed and corrupted by foreign states ). To not do so could allow Farage Incorporated ( and any malign backers ) to destroy the country.

Also, if we get a positive, successful Brexit - which doesn't collapse the country ( *no deal* ) - protecting all our livelihoods, then there is little reason to rejoin.

 

[nicko31]

Yeah, add anyone who disagrees with you to an ignore list - great way to be open minded.

Must admit I've never done ignore lists, if they need to be ignored just don't respond

An open forum is good on Brexit, its good to have a mix of fact and fantasy on here....

 

[Triggaaar]

Must admit I've never done ignore lists, if they need to be ignored just don't respond

Indeed, I don't have an ignore list. To have one that large, and keep posting who's in it, is a little pathetic IMO.

An open forum is good on Brexit, its good to have a mix of fact and fantasy on here....

Indeed.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Move over Mark Francois we have a new winner for the most inflammatory, stupid statements made by an MP ...



A second referendum campaign would be such fun ....

Perhaps a white man saying the same thing might help.

[tweet]1117491714648944643[/tweet]

 

[Mtoto]

No, they were the largest party in the Reichstag but, as Mo says, they never had an actual majority. However, they did enter into an alliance with the DNVP, which enabled them to ban other parties and dissolve the Reichstag.

What really helped Hitler's rise to power was the antipathy of the parties of the centre and left to each other, Hitler exploited this ruthlessly. It's part of the reason he came to absolute power with such a reduced share of the vote

They never had a majority but they made effective use of the seats they did have. There's a photo in the Reichstag museum of the Nazi bloc in the chamber after the election - all in uniform and swastika armbands and all sat together en masse. Looks scary in black and white 80 years later, must have been a lot scarier for everyone else at the time (and probably felt like a majority, even if it wasn't).

The Reichstag is free to visit if you are ever in Berlin btw, just need to book a slot in advance.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

In 1931 the Nazis didn't stir up trouble. They got elected first. They gradually took control by using the will of the people, and turned it into a dictatorship. Gradualism.
Deporting British people is already happening. 11 people wrongly deported have died since, with the Windrush scandal under May. Grenfell still hasn't been investigated properly by the government but swept under the carpet and accusations thrown at the firefighters. 15 of those families still haven't been rehoused.
Registering for settled status, and accidentally sharing their data with all & sundry.
David Lammy is the MP for Tottenham, & listens to the problems of his constituents. He has his finger on the pulse of the man on the street. Unless you have suffered discrimination, you cannot understand.
I am not a Labour supporter but he is a good MP.

I was wondering if any one on here would be stupid enough to try and justify the Nazis comparison, we have a winner ...

Perhaps a white man saying the same thing might help.

[tweet]1117491714648944643[/tweet]

Bit racist ...skin colour may be a factor for you when judging the credibility of a claim, fortunately, most other people arent like you. If you can find quotes from Soubry and Adonis we will have a full house of Remainiac f**kwittery.

Meanwhile back in the real world the biggest factor driving people towards the political extremes is ignoring democratic results so anyone advocating that course of action is a facilitator of (and recruiter for) the far right .... well done David Lammy and you.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Indeed, I don't have an ignore list. To have one that large, and keep posting who's in it, is a little pathetic IMO.

Indeed.

Indeed, no idea why self-identifying as a Safespace snowflake is something to boast about. Very odd.

 

[Lever]

Perhaps a white man saying the same thing might help.

[tweet]1117491714648944643[/tweet]

I agree with the thrust of both men's arguments.
Trouble is, there are many who cannot see or won't accept any parallels and do not believe there is anything to be learnt from history.

 

[Triggaaar]

In 1931 the Nazis didn't stir up trouble. They got elected first.

They were a violent group well before '31.

 

[Gwylan]

They were a violent group well before '31.

Indeed, they broke up political meetings held by opponents and intimidated opposition supporters

That's why the likes of Farage and his threats of violence against those who oppose him are so reminiscent of those times.

 

[Lever]

Indeed, but this is balanced by the need to respect the 2016 referendum ( even though it was deeply flawed and corrupted by foreign states ). To not do so could allow Farage Incorporated ( and any malign backers ) to destroy the country.

Also, if we get a positive, successful Brexit - which doesn't collapse the country ( *no deal* ) - protecting all our livelihoods, then there is little reason to rejoin.

Farage is already trying to undermine our democratically elected representatives; quote 'It's time to put the fear of God into MPS'. This... in a climate of tension and suspicion with one MP already murdered and others threatened with violence. I don't think there is a positive, successful Brexit, but if there was such a thing, I don't think it would be the type to appease Farage. Success will be to undermine and marginalise his rancid views as much as possible.

His views will need to be confronted head on... and he will continue to engender division regardless. A substantial minority will follow him.