[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

Democracy in the UK has been redefined to be more in keeping with EU norms (ignore the electorate if they give the wrong answer) .When has the losing side (that previously made clear this was a once in a lifetime choice) ever insisted democratic results aren't enacted and demand we all vote again?

Oh do **** off, it was "respecting the result of free and fair elections" until it became clear that the referendum was neither, there will not be another referendum with the same question.
You would be happy with a no deal, well that was not in any manifesto or in the leave campaign either.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The same as most elections Remain still had an overwhelming advantage. Unfortunately far too many people on here are happy to ignore the numerous Remain poltician liars, hypocrites and support politicians lying to the public and reneging on promises as long as they get their way. Shameful



What is your other way 'forward' revoke?

In all seriousness, I would be interested to know what a Brexiter would consider as the lies from the Remaus side. Nothing as blatant as a big red bus with £350,000,000 written on the side of it, which plenty of people are still expecting.

 

[Dick Head]

What I as a leaver might think, go on, what do you think I want and therefore might think.

Race-to-the-bottom tax cuts for multinational corporations leading to laundering of funds? Legoland? Deregulation or removal of social and environmental protections? Porno mags? High income inequality and poverty? Your own robot crocodile?

 

[Baldseagull]

It says no deal is better than a bad deal ....

It had some other things that were dropped almost as soon as the election was over too, and yet we were not in danger of democracy ending in the UK then?

 

[Baldseagull]

At least 450 MPs and most of the house of lords are dictating. A thousand people frustrating the will of the biggest turn out in voting history! They ARE dictators. Remainers as a whole are dictatorial. It's an f'ing joke.

The Parliament you wanted to have full sovereignty you mean?

 

[Baldseagull]

At least that referendum would technically be honouring the first result but I wouldn't support it because as everyone agreed before the vote there was only ever meant to be one. Plus the likely split in leave voter preferences while most remain voters would pile on the Norway option would make the whole process a foregone conclusion anyway.

So you would be against a process that delivered a version of leave that the majority of the public preferred? How very democratic of you.

 

[Baldseagull]

The Government saying it doesn't make it true. How can it be the best deal if it can't get anywhere near a majority in parliament?

You really are in knots here, if there is a majority in Parliament, it's going to be a soft Brexit, which to you is undemocratic, and we should have a no deal, which does not have a majority.

 

[The Rivet]

A lot of shitty mood remainers on here tonight...........

 

[Baldseagull]

Oh isn't it all such jolly fun!

As my mother always used to say: "It will all come out in the wash".

The whole situation is so farcical, I just don't know how anybody can take any of it seriously any more. We have had two conservative Prime Ministers in a row who have just made a right royal mess of everything. Can anyone now take them at all as the natural party of government , which is what they always purported to be. They are not on the side of business. They are not on the side of the people. Whose side are they on?

The side of buses?

 

[Chief Wiggum]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

The accepted direction of travel of the EU is ever closer political union. The Lisbon treaty will inevitably have to be changed by further treaty in order to progress this ever closer union and to tighten the rules of membership. If the UK remains then we will be expected to become full members of the EU as it moves towards full convergence by 2025. The U.K. can therefore expect to have to accept some or all of the following within the next two to ten years.


1) Losing its rebate.
2) Joining Schengen.
3) Joining the euro.
4) Uniform corporate and personal taxation.
5) Uniform regulation of financial services.
6) EU jurisprudence.
7) Budgetary supervision by an EU treasury.
8) Formalised EU armed forces, operational and procurement structures.
9) EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies.
10) Mandatory migrant quotas.
11) Removal of Article 50.
12) Other transfers of competencies from member states to the EU, i.e. further losses of sovereignty.

I get the impression that many remain voters voted for the status quo. That is not possible if you consider the direction the EU is traveling. If you voted remain and accept these as possible outcomes and accept that the EU represents technocratic supra-nationalism, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally I prefer sovereign national democracy but each to their own.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I always wondered what was in it for the Brexiteers. Why were they so desperate to leave? Then I saw this article/post.
/Users/kendanbury/Desktop/55467812_2840289436011388_5465605484868272128_n.jpg

 

[Mental Lental]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

The accepted direction of travel of the EU is ever closer political union. The Lisbon treaty will inevitably have to be changed by further treaty in order to progress this ever closer union and to tighten the rules of membership. If the UK remains then we will be expected to become full members of the EU as it moves towards full convergence by 2025. The U.K. can therefore expect to have to accept some or all of the following within the next two to ten years.


1) Losing its rebate.
2) Joining Schengen.
3) Joining the euro.
4) Uniform corporate and personal taxation.
5) Uniform regulation of financial services.
6) EU jurisprudence.
7) Budgetary supervision by an EU treasury.
8) Formalised EU armed forces, operational and procurement structures.
9) EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies.
10) Mandatory migrant quotas.
11) Removal of Article 50.
12) Other transfers of competencies from member states to the EU, i.e. further losses of sovereignty.

I get the impression that many remain voters voted for the status quo. That is not possible if you consider the direction the EU is traveling. If you voted remain and accept these as possible outcomes and accept that the EU represents technocratic supra-nationalism, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally I prefer sovereign national democracy but each to their own.

We have a veto on the top 3 of those if we remain. If we leave however and want back in at a later date, we'll have to accept any condition they want us to.

 

[Stat Brother]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

The accepted direction of travel of the EU is ever closer political union. The Lisbon treaty will inevitably have to be changed by further treaty in order to progress this ever closer union and to tighten the rules of membership. If the UK remains then we will be expected to become full members of the EU as it moves towards full convergence by 2025. The U.K. can therefore expect to have to accept some or all of the following within the next two to ten years.


1) Losing its rebate.
2) Joining Schengen.
3) Joining the euro.
4) Uniform corporate and personal taxation.
5) Uniform regulation of financial services.
6) EU jurisprudence.
7) Budgetary supervision by an EU treasury.
8) Formalised EU armed forces, operational and procurement structures.
9) EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies.
10) Mandatory migrant quotas.
11) Removal of Article 50.
12) Other transfers of competencies from member states to the EU, i.e. further losses of sovereignty.

I get the impression that many remain voters voted for the status quo. That is not possible if you consider the direction the EU is traveling. If you voted remain and accept these as possible outcomes and accept that the EU represents technocratic supra-nationalism, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally I prefer sovereign national democracy but each to their own.

Oh bless.

Firstly you do realise we already have sovereign national democracy, always had and always will.
As ML says we have the power of veto, not just on the top 3, but we have the big veto held only by France & Germany.

But most importantly - you currently are in favour of sovereign national democracy!

Given the choice of our current political class ruling over the best interests of this country or a bag of spanners, the only answer can be...





... hand me a spanner.

 

[Mental Lental]

Sorry, I used the word veto when I should have said opt-out.....

https://politick.co.uk/uk-opt-outs-from-eu-legislation/

The fact that here we are 3 years and 83k posts later, and we have someone trying to "contribute" to this thread that STILL isn't aware of the UK's existing safeguards against further EU integration defies belief.

 

[Stat Brother]

Sorry, I used the word veto when I should have said opt-out.....

https://politick.co.uk/uk-opt-outs-from-eu-legislation/

The fact that here we are 3 years and 83k posts later, and we have someone trying to "contribute" to this thread that STILL isn't aware of the UK's existing safeguards against further EU integration defies belief.

Sadly that doesn't quite chime with the Daily Mail front page, of last week, which was 'We Want Our Sovereignty Back'.

 

[Stat Brother]

Looking for that actual front page I found this:-




I'm just surprised they didn't write it on a bus, as well.

 

[pb21]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

We still don't know what the first day of Brexit will look like, or when it will be. The first day of remaining in the EU would be exactly like the day before. On that basis remainers did know what they were voting for and the same can't be said.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One of the common arguments I hear on a regular basis is that leavers did not know what they were voting for. The same could be said for those who voted remain. Did they know what they were really voting for?

The accepted direction of travel of the EU is ever closer political union. The Lisbon treaty will inevitably have to be changed by further treaty in order to progress this ever closer union and to tighten the rules of membership. If the UK remains then we will be expected to become full members of the EU as it moves towards full convergence by 2025. The U.K. can therefore expect to have to accept some or all of the following within the next two to ten years.


1) Losing its rebate.
2) Joining Schengen.
3) Joining the euro.
4) Uniform corporate and personal taxation.
5) Uniform regulation of financial services.
6) EU jurisprudence.
7) Budgetary supervision by an EU treasury.
8) Formalised EU armed forces, operational and procurement structures.
9) EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies.
10) Mandatory migrant quotas.
11) Removal of Article 50.
12) Other transfers of competencies from member states to the EU, i.e. further losses of sovereignty.

I get the impression that many remain voters voted for the status quo. That is not possible if you consider the direction the EU is traveling. If you voted remain and accept these as possible outcomes and accept that the EU represents technocratic supra-nationalism, then I have no problem with that whatsoever. Personally I prefer sovereign national democracy but each to their own.

I’ve seen this in action over the past 6 months. No thank you, I’m sure you understand why.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Another day, another chance for Mrs May. A 'political' Cabinet this morning followed by a standard Cabinet this afternoon. God knows where we might be by late afternoon. Could be


a) resignations from hard core Leavers


b) resignations from Remainers


c) if a or b (or even a + b!) then could be the end of the Tory party in its current configuration?


d) less dramatically I think she'll opt for putting her deal back to the Commons tomorrow, possibly in a jump-off against the Customs Union option? (Speaker allowing.)


If ever there was a time for 'reaching out' across party lines then this is it. But what we'll get is a bunker mentality. And the likes of Rees-Mogg and pals will be grinning like Cheshire cats.

 

[beorhthelm]

The fact that here we are 3 years and 83k posts later, and we have someone trying to "contribute" to this thread that STILL isn't aware of the UK's existing safeguards against further EU integration defies belief.

you skipped over items 4 on ward where opt out dont apply. the EU will evolve, items 7, 8, 9 have been openly discussed and promoted by EU leaders in the past couple of years so its not a flight of fantasy. we should accept this if we remain not try to ignore conquences like leave campaign. embracing EU is to embrace closer union over time. who doesnt want uniform tax and financial regulations to control the excess of companies avoiding tax or common foreign policy to address international relations and united front as a single block? cant trust the MPs in Westminster to make decisions anymore, may be technocrats in Brussels is the better option.