[Politics] Brexit

[GrizzlingGammon]

So you still cant find the EU mechanism that permits the immigration visa and quota controls whilst still being in the EU.
Do you need more time to search?

I don't see why I need to. I have not claimed this. But do please read the document regarding what I have claimed.

 

[The Clamp]

A genuine question (no angle), where do you see our relationship with/in the EU, when this period of uncertainty is finally 100% concluded?

I haven’t a clue.

 

[Mtoto]

But leavers got off their arses and voted to leave. According to some commentators many remainers didn't both to vote - particularly the younger generations. Yet now you expect leavers to go on some pointless march or sign some pointless petition to counteract those too lazy to have voted originally ?

It's a fundamental flaw in the concept - the angry are more galvanised to vote for change than the content are motivated to defend the status quo. It's why any referendum on such an immense and irreversible change in a country's relationship with the world would normally require a super-majority for change. Or, as someone supposedly said to Cameron at a dinner recently, "even my f***ing golf club needs a super-majority to change its constitution".

 

[pastafarian]

I don't see why I need to. I have not claimed this. But do please read the document regarding what I have claimed.

Yes you did, you said

“Now you know that immigration can be controlled whilst we are part of the EU”,

Visas, permits to enter and quotas are standard ways of controlling immigration enjoyed by numerous nations across the planet.
If we can control EU immigration with these basic requirements what is the EU mechanism that permits this.

If you want to back out and admit actually we don’t have these basic level of immigration control whilst being in the EU i am all ears.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes you did, you said

“Now you know that immigration can be controlled whilst we are part of the EU”,

Visas, permits to enter and quotas are standard ways of controlling immigration enjoyed by numerous nations across the planet.
If we can control EU immigration with these basic requirements what is the EU mechanism that permits this.

If you want to back out and admit actually we don’t have these basic level of immigration control whilst being in the EU i am all ears.

No, you are not all ears. You want to argue all the time. You have seen posts linking to Article 7, but choose to ignore them, because it doesn't fit in with your ideas of control & immigration.

 

[highflyer]

Thanks for that straight answer

(I would say that I can't see the advantage of that over full membership, but maybe we'll leave that for another day )

Soft Brexit is my preference. I see the EU as a progressive global counterbalance to the US. However, I also know, from personal experience, how strong the corporate lobby in Brussels is, and how open to such lobbying large parts of the EU machinery can be. Overall the UK plays a regressive role in the EU. It has been highly influential as a government (we are good at that) and UK based companies are highly influential as a lobby group - a lot of that lobbying happens in close coordination with the UK government. All this stuff about trade, as I have said previously, basically boils down to 'let's be the bullies and not the bullied'. TTIP (the much heralded EU deal with the US) was opposed by many of the left that properly understood what it would mean for workers rights and environmental regulations, who's interests it really represented, and who was pulling the strings in the negotiations. The UK was a major player in that deal.

So us being rule takers and not rule makers sounds OK to me. At least with our present government. But I know I am in a minority and probably a minority of one on this board.

So the other argument (and one that I think may just prevail) is that a soft brexit is the one outcome that the majority can dislike equally, but still live with.

 

[pastafarian]

No, you are not all ears. You want to argue all the time. You have seen posts linking to Article 7, but choose to ignore them, because it doesn't fit in with your ideas of control & immigration.

Visas and quotas are basic standard immigration controls used by numerous countries outside the EU. We use them as standard on non EU citizens.You are just miffed i showed up your lies that we could always control EU immigration,,,,,,when we clearly do not have the powers to do so at the basic level whilst in the EU.
I havnt ignored them, they are irrelevant to visa and quota control
Stop lying to people and tell the truth, you might actually get people to listen to you.

 

[cjd]

Can someone please take Pastafarians keyboard away , so we can see other peoples opinions.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Visas and quotas are basic standard immigration controls used by numerous countries outside the EU. We use them as standard on non EU citizens.You are just miffed i showed up your lies that we could always control EU immigration,,,,,,when we clearly do not have the powers to do so at the basic level whilst in the EU.
I havnt ignored them, they are irrelevant to visa and quota control
Stop lying to people and tell the truth, you might actually get people to listen to you.

It depends what you mean by control though. Can you stop a person from the EU arriving for no reason, no...and I don’t want that. Can you have an element of control and mitigate the things which tedious right wingers complain about for example the supposed strain on the NHS, jobs, yes you can. But this needs will and imagination....commodities which are clearly both in short supply in the U.K. parliament.

 

[The Clamp]

The will of the people is clearly to remain now. Time to cease the madness and call this chaos off.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

i showed up your lies that we could always control EU immigration,,,,,,when we clearly do not have the powers to do so at the basic level whilst in the EU.

Utter bullshit.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Some more fake news for the swivel eyed loonies on here.

Just spoken to an ex colleague who works at CDG AIrport in the immigration department and they have been told that they will be adopting a US style policy and they have all been given dates over the next three days to attend courses in operating finger printing machines that all of us who have been to the states have seen for ages.

Also they will be withdrawing the ability of British Biometrics passports to use the biometric gates as all uk citizens will need to be " spoken" to and have their passport stamped.

Oh and roaming charges will apply once the no deal is implemented.

It's all going really well and exactly what everyone voted for.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Visas and quotas are basic standard immigration controls used by numerous countries outside the EU. We use them as standard on non EU citizens.You are just miffed i showed up your lies that we could always control EU immigration,,,,,,when we clearly do not have the powers to do so at the basic level whilst in the EU.
I havnt ignored them, they are irrelevant to visa and quota control
Stop lying to people and tell the truth, you might actually get people to listen to you.

Same old modus operandi. It doesn't say what I want it to say so it must be lies.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The will of the people is clearly to remain now. Time to cease the madness and call this chaos off.

It's ironic that Letwin was one of the supporters of the Poll tax which was overturned by public opinion.

 

[pastafarian]

It depends what you mean by control though. Can you stop a person from the EU arriving for no reason, no...and I don’t want that. Can you have an element of control and mitigate the things which tedious right wingers complain about for example the supposed strain on the NHS, jobs, yes you can. But this needs will and imagination....commodities which are clearly both in short supply in the U.K. parliament.

Control means applying permissions to enter for those wanting to live and work (visas) and applying quotas on tier groups should you wish to choose to apply them, upwardly or downwardly, to regulate admissions.
"Can you stop a person from the EU arriving for no reason, no".......by your own admission is not control.......there lies the fault

 

[The Clamp]

May threatening to ignore the MP’s decisions. She needs to go. Now.

 

[father_and_son]

Anyone else feeling like crashing out might be the best thing come 12th April... Damn sure we'd have a deal in place within a week and suddenly both sides will be happy to negotiate a mutually acceptable deal quite urgently. All that hardlines and non-negotiatables straight out of the window as we scramble for a deal!

 

[pastafarian]

Utter bullshit.

We cannot subject EU citizens whilst in the EU to visas for entry or be subject to quotas.......this is not bullshit........it is the truth........if you think we can then provide the link to the EU mechanism that permits it.............not one of you can yet you all scream the UK can control its EU immigration.........now that is bullshit.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Control means applying permissions to enter for those wanting to live and work (visas) and applying quotas on tier groups should you wish to choose to apply them, upwardly or downwardly, to regulate admissions.
"Can you stop a person from the EU arriving for no reason, no".......by your own admission is not control.......there lies the fault

You are unbelievably ****ing thick. Can you not read? I said you can add an element of control and mitigation. Try arriving in Germany and signing on and popping along to the dentist to have your teeth fixed....you’ll soon find out what I mean.

 

[The Clamp]

There cannot be a no deal now. No other deal can be upheld. Leaves one option.
Likelier than ever now that we won’t be leaving the EU.
Rather funny seeing our resident Brexiteers absolutely losing their crackers on here.