[Politics] Brexit

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Remain would not win a second referendum.

Most remainers I've read about (on here, in loads of articles - no, not in the Daily Mail - and talking to friends and colleagues) just don't want to know why people voted (and will vote) leave. Remainers do not get it, did not expect it, have made no effort to understand the views of people like me and simply branded us thick or uninformed.

Well I for one understand why Brexiters want to Brexit. As you say, you believe it will be better for the country.

You don't say why, though.

The Brexit supporters I know had reasons at the time. One is one of my best mates. We have: taking control of our borders (which we already have, but this will be the first and last time in this list I will point out the obvious); stopping the EU changing our laws; getting the right to fish our local waters; not being forced at a later date to give up the pound; not being ....actually I can't think of any other reasons.

You are a smart poster with a proper working brain. Please tell me what I'm missing; proper big fat unequivocal reasons for leaving that are not just a hopeful punt like a fiver on the winner of the Grand National.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If that was Liam Fox trying to defend Brexit then we are truly f***ed, trying to find targets across the house when the real problem is very clearly behind him (the right emoji really hasn't been invented)

He really is the worst of the lot.

How he can stand up and demand any respect after failing so badly.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

During the Cold War they'd have been handing out Hero of the Soviet Union medals for anyone involved in contributing to a mess like the one we find ourselves in now. They wouldn't have dreamed this possible.

It's called the Pushkin medal nowadays.

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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Put me down for number four option then!

In seriousness, I have a feeling this is it, in a nutshell, for many. I once wrote on this thread, before the first vote, that after a few beers I often felt '**** it, let's leave'. But to paraphrase Winston Churchill in his rebuttal to the lady who accused him of being drunk, 'And madam, you're ugly. But in the morning I will be sober'.

 

[GT49er]

I’d boycott like a lot of others. Can’t just change the goal posts because they didn’t like the first result.

That's giving the corrupt politicians who broke their word what they want. It'll be a disgrace if the shysters do come back with another referendum in the hope that they get the 'right' result this time - it's up to the electorate to make sure they don't.

 

[LlcoolJ]

In seriousness, I have a feeling this is it, in a nutshell, for many. I once wrote on this thread, before the first vote, that after a few beers I often felt '**** it, let's leave'. But to paraphrase Winston Churchill in his rebuttal to the lady who accused him of being drunk, 'And madam, you're ugly. But in the morning I will be sober'.

It's a good comeback but I bet she wasn't as ugly as him. Plus he was generally only sober for an hour or so.

Oh hold on, this isn't a Joke Du Jour thread, sorry.....

 

[Wardy's twin]

Voted Remain the first time, would vote Remain the 2nd time.

Literally nothing has happened in the last couple of years that has made me even think about changing my vote.

I think a lot has happened to prove that leaving is a bad idea and not easy to implement ....I voted remain and would do again

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Vote in favour to take no deal off the table forever.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Vote in favour to take no deal off the table forever.

It's not legally binding but it does leave May in a quandry.

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[Fungus]

Wow, didn't expect it to be that close.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

No one has yet explained to me what a second referendum on whether to leave would achieve?

I could get behind one that listed all of the options to leave as we have already decided to do that, but why would we vote again on whether to remain or not? We have said that already.

Say we had one and Remain won by 52% to 48% as I think is very possible. What then?

The issue isn't in the original vote, it's in the inability of the largely remain supporting MPs to accept it.

Surely it's the inability of the MP's to agree on a way to carry it out. Both Labour and the Conservatives stood on platforms to respect the vote in 2017 and I think for the most part they meant it.

It was always going to happen. The problem is that "leave" wasn't a tangible thing - it was always going to be in the hands of MP's to interpret and apply in a way that they saw fit. Every person who voted leave would (or should) have understood that. And the inevitable has happened - too many different views as to what it should be for any side to win out. The Labour front bench has been very clear that they are open to supporting a deal, just a slightly softer one to the one on the table. I am sure there are some remain MP's that are licking their lips at the prospect that they can find a way to have a second vote and wanted it to happen all along but I do think there are many who would have acquiesced to a fair compromise on leaving the EU, but with a deal that respects the will of the 48% of the population who voted remain.

As a very staunch remainer, I for one would have gone along with a soft, Customs-union/Norway Brexit because it would reflect that a small majority wanted to leave, and therefore do so, but also recognise that it was very tight - and try to find a fair democratic compromise. However, May has pandered to the extremes of her party and gone for a hard Brexit, which was not on the ballot paper and doesn't reflect the narrow outcome of the referendum. As a result I will lose no sleep in seeing "democracy not delivered" if Britain doesn't leave. We know 48% of people voted to completely remain. We have no idea how many people from the 52% wanted a hard Brexit, but I doubt it was 90% of them. Remaining would be more democratic than a hard Brexit.

 

[GT49er]

In seriousness, I have a feeling this is it, in a nutshell, for many. I once wrote on this thread, before the first vote, that after a few beers I often felt '**** it, let's leave'. But to paraphrase Winston Churchill in his rebuttal to the lady who accused him of being drunk, 'And madam, you're ugly. But in the morning I will be sober'.

I have been opposed to being part of the EU (or the EEC as it once was) since 1974; I voted 'no' in 1975, and I've wanted us to leave ever since. Well, no, not quite - for a number of years I lumped it rather than liking it, but spent my days bothering about other things - girls, bands, buying a house, raising a family - and never really believing we'd get a chance to ever have a vote on membership; so much was dumped on us whether we wanted it or not; the wine lake, the butter mountain, people being prosecuted for using imperial measures, Single European Act, the Lisbon Treaty - all without our consent.
So, that's 45 years I've been wanting out; I can honestly say, with my hand on my heart, I have not been drunk all that time! (and I wasn't really that ugly back in the day either!)

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Wow, didn't expect it to be that close.

It was the amendment that the Torys whipped against. Government was expected to win it, they lost.

Non binding, but embarasing.

 

[BBassic]

I think a lot has happened to prove that leaving is a bad idea and not easy to implement ....I voted remain and would do again

I was thinking the options, if there were to be a 2nd ref, should be something like:

A) Remain.
B) Brexit - with the proviso that Article 50 is invoked AFTER A GOOD F**KING DEAL HAS BEEN AGREED.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's a good comeback but I bet she wasn't as ugly as him. Plus he was generally only sober for an hour or so.

Oh hold on, this isn't a Joke Du Jour thread, sorry.....

Indeed. More like panto.

He's behind you.

(oh no he isn't).

 

[Seasider78]

So now we are in a loop where the EU will only grant an extension if the UK parliament agree which option they want an extension on which we cannot agree as both have been voted down.

Shambles

 

[LlcoolJ]

Indeed. More like panto.

He's behind you.

(oh no he isn't).

Ha ha!

 

[BBassic]

Just a 2% majority on that amendment.

WILL OF THE MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

etc etc

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have been opposed to being part of the EU (or the EEC as it once was) since 1974; I voted 'no' in 1975, and I've wanted us to leave ever since. Well, no, not quite - for a number of years I lumped it rather than liking it, but spent my days bothering about other things - girls, bands, buying a house, raising a family - and never really believing we'd get a chance to ever have a vote on membership; so much was dumped on us whether we wanted it or not; the wine lake, the butter mountain, people being prosecuted for using imperial measures, Single European Act, the Lisbon Treaty - all without our consent.
So, that's 45 years I've been wanting out; I can honestly say, with my hand on my heart, I have not been drunk all that time! (and I wasn't really that ugly back in the day either!)

So....how soon after Brexit do you think the butter mountain will melt?

As for the wine lake, I can reassure you that I took care of that long ago.

So, heartfelt reasons....strong convictions.....

How are you feeling about the tooth fairy, and the afterlife these days?

I recommend reading about the 'B Ark' in Hitch hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. A brave new world awaits . . . .

Right, now I'm off to see whether Liverpool wants to make an early Brexit. Take it easy

 

[Thunder Bolt]

164/374 - Malthouse amendment rejected

A third defeat for the government in 24 hours.