Baker lite
Banned
Some of the money we have given to the Indian and Chinese space programs could go towards “starving kids”.
On our way.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Some of the money we have given to the Indian and Chinese space programs could go towards “starving kids”.
On our way.
neilbard
Hedging up
- Oct 8, 2013
- 6,280
Rodney Thomas
Well-known member
He used the word 'members', because the point he was responding to was a (massively incorrect) claim about Labour party MEMBERS
People seem unable to follow a conversation/debate when it comes to Brexit. I can't work out whether its down to blinkeredness, ignorance or convenience.
(FYI this it not aimed at [MENTION=2743]Mellor 3 Ward 4[/MENTION] but merely something I believe to be happening)
attila
1997 Club
So where do we go from here?
Everything in Parliament is in stasis. There’s no majority for anything except, bizarrely a continuation of the Tories’ inept, hapless government - thanks to the support of the DUP, MPs for the politics and culture of 1690, which says it all.
Corbyn didn't win his vote of no confidence: he didn't think he would, neither did anyone else. At this point we have reached the position set out and voted on at Labour conference, which is, in the absence of a general election, for Labour to call for a second referendum.
Despite doing hundreds of gigs on its territory and feeling thoroughly 'European' I have no love for the EU as a sociopolitical bloc for reasons expressed many times and understand why a majority voted to leave. I campaigned for No in 1975 though not quite old enough to vote. I didn’t support the second referendum and support a third one even less (though you could argue - best of three) �� We are a representative democracy and should have remained so.
But the prospect of months or years of deadlock, paralysis, the abjugation of meaningful civil legislative government and thus of the opportunity to oppose the Tories’ destructive policies leads me to the conclusion that we must look for a way out by finding a majority to go forward. The only extant majority, apart for the one which will keep these lemmings in power, is for a second referendum. I don’t want one, but I honestly can’t see an alternative.
I totally accept that some people will see that as an abject betrayal, and I can’t argue with that. But many more will breathe a sigh of relief that there is a way out. And when the most vociferous criers of ‘traitors’ are often those who would be content to see their fellow countrymen reduced to penury and countless businesses fold to bring about their 4% majority dream - and in extreme cases are actual working class people who attack picket lines - I think they should take a long, hard look at themselves too. If we’re going to throw the word ‘traitor’ about - and we shouldn’t, we really shouldn’t - it works both ways.
And although it is true that a minority of those who voted Leave are working class Labour supporters in northern towns, the majority are mainly elderly Tory voters from the shires. I saw the huge queue in our polling station on the day, turned to my wife and said ‘It’s a vote to leave’. I knew at that very moment.
The crucial thing is to find a way out of this mess. I don’t like it, but I can see no other. Most crucially, it is the policy supported at Labour conference. Corbyn has always said that he will listen to the membership, and, albeit with grave misgivings (less grave than those for any other outcome) I think he should. But the whole thing is obscene and Cameron and his cronies should be in the stocks for foisting it on us.
Everything in Parliament is in stasis. There’s no majority for anything except, bizarrely a continuation of the Tories’ inept, hapless government - thanks to the support of the DUP, MPs for the politics and culture of 1690, which says it all.
Corbyn didn't win his vote of no confidence: he didn't think he would, neither did anyone else. At this point we have reached the position set out and voted on at Labour conference, which is, in the absence of a general election, for Labour to call for a second referendum.
Despite doing hundreds of gigs on its territory and feeling thoroughly 'European' I have no love for the EU as a sociopolitical bloc for reasons expressed many times and understand why a majority voted to leave. I campaigned for No in 1975 though not quite old enough to vote. I didn’t support the second referendum and support a third one even less (though you could argue - best of three) �� We are a representative democracy and should have remained so.
But the prospect of months or years of deadlock, paralysis, the abjugation of meaningful civil legislative government and thus of the opportunity to oppose the Tories’ destructive policies leads me to the conclusion that we must look for a way out by finding a majority to go forward. The only extant majority, apart for the one which will keep these lemmings in power, is for a second referendum. I don’t want one, but I honestly can’t see an alternative.
I totally accept that some people will see that as an abject betrayal, and I can’t argue with that. But many more will breathe a sigh of relief that there is a way out. And when the most vociferous criers of ‘traitors’ are often those who would be content to see their fellow countrymen reduced to penury and countless businesses fold to bring about their 4% majority dream - and in extreme cases are actual working class people who attack picket lines - I think they should take a long, hard look at themselves too. If we’re going to throw the word ‘traitor’ about - and we shouldn’t, we really shouldn’t - it works both ways.
And although it is true that a minority of those who voted Leave are working class Labour supporters in northern towns, the majority are mainly elderly Tory voters from the shires. I saw the huge queue in our polling station on the day, turned to my wife and said ‘It’s a vote to leave’. I knew at that very moment.
The crucial thing is to find a way out of this mess. I don’t like it, but I can see no other. Most crucially, it is the policy supported at Labour conference. Corbyn has always said that he will listen to the membership, and, albeit with grave misgivings (less grave than those for any other outcome) I think he should. But the whole thing is obscene and Cameron and his cronies should be in the stocks for foisting it on us.
I’m sure they did consider Brexit. Certain of it. They obviously came to the conclusion that they will be okay. I haven’t read the links though as I’m on a bus.
Just
Just a shame earnings are at a standstill too.
Just a shame earnings are at a standstill too.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
You shouldn't believe every headline you see in The Daily Express.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The deal that was rejected last Monday was for the limit to be £30K, so that rules out nurses, physiotherepists and other valued health workers.
The Home Office cannot cope at the moment and have been deporting legal immigrants as per the Windrush scandal so how on earth do you think they will cope with all the applications that will come in after Brexit?
We are 42,000 nurses short and 12,000 doctors short right now, in the NHS.
Mr Banana
Tedious chump
The data suggests that low-skilled immigrants are not a drain on public finances. They are also vital to several industries other than agriculture.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,272
We do not invest in new machinery and tech as our economy is geared up to make the maximum amount of money in the short term, everything is designed to keep costs down now rather than look to the future. That's why the majority of jobs pay barely minimum wage, the death of the High Street comes from those people having to shave whatever they can off a price by buying online, this also is the reason why the discount supermarkets are thriving.
My company is a series of franchises ultimately owned by people in the Channel Islands, Wages are poor because there is a tug of war between the offshore head office and the franchise directors each of whom try to gain the maximum they can out of the business at the expense of new machinery and equipment. Brexit will not change this one iota although a bad outcome such as the value of Pound falling will give them a good reason to tell us all to tighten our belts and work harder, yet again. The owners are in the Rich List with assets of over £1 billion btw.
btnbelle
New member
- Apr 26, 2017
- 1,438
You sound negative about our potential for the future. You are painting a picture, a very real picture for everyone, of how the world works....
For this reason we need to be more like Trump who manages to create strong growth in the global market without being in the EU.
People may not like Trump, (I am not a fan of all he has to offer) but he knows how to turn around an economy.
So in the long run, we can prosper in the global market but we need to do things differently....
btnbelle
New member
- Apr 26, 2017
- 1,438
Data from so called experts?
Given the only consensus that seems to be able to be reached in the House is that no deal is not an option, at this point I just don't see any viable alternative to a further referendum, however unpalatable the first one was (why have elected representatives at all if they're not empowered to make the most complex decisions?) and however unpalatable a second one would also undoubtedly be. I don't understand why Corbyn isn't now calling for a further referendum, both because it makes political sense for him to do so and, more importantly, the Labour Conference envisaged exactly the scenario we now face and voted that the policy should then be to call for a second referendum.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
As revealing an opinion as you could ever wish to see. Well done for being so straightforward about it, gave me a chuckle any road.
btnbelle
New member
- Apr 26, 2017
- 1,438
Nurses will be allowed, we will have the ability to choose to allow people when there is exceptional need. We will have control and it will create jobs at the Home office.
Indeed. At least [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION] will now have a positive to take out of Brexit after his bitching about old people preventing him getting on the property ladder.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Ok so we let in nurses but on that criteria, European footballers are not needed.
Btw over 3000 European nurses have returned to their own countries since the Referendum because they no longer feel welcome here.
By the ability to choose, I take it you mean the Home Office, who like all the Civil Servants have been completely decimated (actually that means a 10th when it is more like 25% reduction) by austerity.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,272
I have no knowledge of what preconditions Corbyn has before meeting anyone but it should be remembered that ultimately you eventually have to talk and negotiate with people you don't agree with ( Terrorist/ Freedom Fighter ) or nothing ever goes forward. Mrs Thatcher famously said " We don't negotiate with terrorists " although privately there were back channel negotiations and talks going on, how the IRA managed to overcome their disgust at Thatcher and talk to her is a triumph of hope over experience, but something had to change or the impasse would never be broken.
btnbelle
New member
- Apr 26, 2017
- 1,438
Yes you are right. unfortunately we need to start living in the real world and look at boosting our market share.
We should not pat ourselves on the back for growth when it is simply earnt for providing for more people via immigration. The trick is to provide them with products in their homeland and bring their money back to our economy.
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
Right, so you are saying that these positive decisions were taken despite Brexit.
& The negative decision of Hitachi was taken because of it.
Typical.