[Politics] Brexit

[Kinky Gerbil]

Mate, no deal is pivotal to the negotiations and the reason he doesn't want a referendum is because he knows he will lose votes from party members who a large proportion are leavers.

Do you think that anyone believes that no deal is pivotal to anyone but the other side of the table.

It’s going to be used against us in every single negation we have.

 

[The Clamp]

It's not making the news as such, but the construction industry is rapidly losing it's skills and labour and has been since the referendum. Many EU workers are moving back home, not just because of the threat of Brexit, but their own countries economies are providing enough work for them.

Take that in context of the uncertainty and the impact on construction materials costs; the construction materials index had the price of materials jump 5.3% for the year to January, the biggest rise since 2011, and to say it's a 'coincidence' with Hitachi is miss informed at best.

The construction industry is desperate for labour, trade skills, and management experience, and cannot get it. The warnings are there. No project fear, project reality.

As I posted previously, even when we leave the EU, free movement from the EU will continue unabated, but we'll be able to re-name it. Which is nice.

Exactly. We will have a blanket Essential Labour Ticket issued and they’ll all carry on as before.

 

[btnbelle]

Have a walk down your local High Street, about the only shops left are coffee shops, Barbers and nail bars, all staffed by students, Turks and Thai's, we don't manufacture anything these days as its cheaper and easier to get it made in China and shipped in, the EU never forced us to do this.

It is our productivity that is a problem. The introduction of AI will allow us to manufacture products at a competitive price.

When we are in control of our own future we will be able to turn around the economy, just like Trump has managed to do in the same global market we all live in. I know, posters from the left side of the argument, will be distraught reading this bit.... BUT we all trade in the same place and we have to adapt if we want to prosper. Ultimately it is our failure to adapt to the global market that is holding back our biggest potential for growth. We seem to amble along adding to our population which in turn gives us a slow growth in GDP.

It is sad you only see our nation as being incapable of building a more prosperous future. It is a common way of thinking for people now. Such subtle negative thinking, stops people from reaching their full potential.

Around 2% of the population (Named as 2%er's by Andy Cope in his book, The Art of being Brilliant) don't just have ideas, they implement them. We need to encourage more entrepreneurship and build a nation together we can be proud of.

The death of the high street is down to the growth of online shopping. A global problem.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No, he has a responsibility to the count to engage if offered, he only wants one thing and that’s a GE imho, he ain’t got one so he’s being a nob! It’s amazing when he talks about the importance of dialogue leading peaceful negotiations in a conflict situation, yet here he won’t entertain, I suggest he’s out of his depth!

He has entertained it, he has asked for 1 entirely reasonable confirmation, that most of the country is asking for as it happens, from economists, to the construction industry, to whatever else, that a No Deal Brexit is take off the table, as have the other leaders in the house.

It may have escaped your notice, but the government need votes from across the house, something May would have known the day after the GE, because her own party are so rabidly split. And yet you're annoyed at Corbyn. Ridiculous really.

 

[dingodan]

If you think any kind of business isn’t considering Brexit in all decisions at the moment you’re deluded.

Brexit must be behind this then.

June 2018: UK attracts £2.3bn in tech investments and 1,600 new jobs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44452444

June 2018: Salesforce commits to $2.5bn UK investment ahead of No 10 meeting
https://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/news/salesforce-invests-2-5bn-in-uk/

September 2018: INEOS is to invest £60 million in the UK to expand production at its Grangemouth site
https://www.ineos.com/news/ineos-gr...to-expand-production-at-its-grangemouth-site/

December 2018: UCB to invest £1bn into UK under life sciences sector deal
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/ucb_to_invest_1bn_into_uk_under_life_sciences_sector_deal_1272053

I'm sure you will now tell me that any positive investment news is despite Brexit, and any negative investment news is because of it.

Sorry but you can't have it both ways.

 

[Simster]

Of course the Prime Minister is renowned for her open governance and complete lack of " red lines " ? And this is why we are in this mess, pretty rich blaming Corbyn now after May and a small cabal have, in isolation negotiated to their self appointed red lines. We currently have the biggest lame duck Prime Minister on record but it's not her fault ?

I'm certainly not blaming Corbyn for this mess, but I still maintain he is not acting in the interests of the country by not responding like the bigger man to this request from our dreadful Prime Minister. What is stop him talking to her and telling her in private at the meeting that "no deal" must be off the table.

And I repeat, how come it's OK to talk to terrorist organisations without conditions but not the PM of this country? Answer me that.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

90% of Labour members are remainers and 72% are backing a 2nd referendum.

Glad you included the word 'members.'

Certainly not the same as voters - especially in the North - Caroline Flint wrote an excellent article in the Guardian recently about her duty to her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/16/labour-mp-deal-no-deal-eu-brexit

 

[zefarelly]

This is bollocks, we have full sovereignty and controls of our Laws and money.

we get more out of th EU than we put in ( aSK A FARMER) AND IN HOWEVER MANY YEARS/DECADES HAVE ONLY EVER VOTED AGAINST MAJOR eu POLICY A HANDFUL OF TIMES. oops, caps lock!

I don't accept that. The thing that remainers don't seem to understand is that a large majority of those that voted leave did so because of the principal of sovereignty and control of our laws and money. Nothing has changed on that front so why would their vote change. I think most leavers would accept a small decline in economic growth to achieve this. So they would be voting leave again because they feel as strongly as last time, not just because of some sort of resentment as you suggest.

 

[Simster]

He has entertained it, he has asked for 1 entirely reasonable confirmation, that most of the country is asking for as it happens, from economists, to the construction industry, to whatever else, that a No Deal Brexit is take off the table, as have the other leaders in the house.

It may have escaped your notice, but the government need votes from across the house, something May would have known the day after the GE, because her own party are so rabidly split. And yet you're annoyed at Corbyn. Ridiculous really.

Are we allowed to be annoyed at the pair of them, but to different degrees? I'm annoyed at Corbyn, but absolutely outraged at May.

 

[attila]

Corbyn is absolutely right that no deal must come off the table in any Brexit negotiations.
No deal benefits nobody apart from a few City speculators - who of course are often Tory party donors.
Is that the reason May won’t rule it out I wonder?

Millions which could be spent on the NHS and giving starving kids enough to eat now being wasted on fake 'no deal preparations' like a crap artificial traffic jam at Dover.
The WI could make a better jam than that.
Unbelievable.

 

[zefarelly]

Agree re shopping however

Productivity is down to many things . . . this country has traditionally built high end quality products, that takes skill time and costs real money . . .hi-fi is a good example, and racing cars. . . . . the high productivity rate comes from mass production, low quality materials and produce and low land/material & labour costs, all of it working against the western worlds attempts to curb global warming and sustainability.

It is our productivity that is a problem.

The death of the high street is down to the growth of online shopping. A global problem.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Mate, no deal is pivotal to the negotiations and the reason he doesn't want a referendum is because he knows he will lose votes from party members who a large proportion are leavers.

90% of Labour members are remainers and 72% are backing a 2nd referendum.

Glad you included the word 'members.'

Certainly not the same as voters - especially in the North - Caroline Flint wrote an excellent article in the Guardian recently about her duty to her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/16/labour-mp-deal-no-deal-eu-brexit

He used the word 'members', because the point he was responding to was a (massively incorrect) claim about Labour party MEMBERS

 

[Diablo]

House prices falling,
.

Lets hope so..... House prices are such a huge multiple of earnings now it`s almost impossible to save deposit.

 

[btnbelle]

I realise that, but what I'm trying to paint for you so that it doesn't come as too much of a shock, is that immigration will not change after we Leave. It simply won't because if incoming numbers were the issue and over 50% coming in are from outside the EU, we would have already curbed immigration. We haven't and that should tell you that economically it is not viable to do so.

I appreciate you are in favour of controlled immigration, but leaving the EU will not change the numbers. In fact, I would go as far as to say that if our new trading utopia materialises, and we do have an upturn in economic output, we will increase immigration and make it as close to free movement from the EU as we can make it.

Yes, you paint a picture that is realistic. So ending free movement and choosing who we need is a benefit but the over supply of the workforce will end because it holds down wages.

EU = uncontrolled immigration, anyone can come and steal jobs from low skilled British citizens which in turn lowers their wages. Low skilled migrants from the EU, either move their familes here, start a family here and claim benefits. While others send part of their wages and benefits back to their family at home. They cost us money by not paying as much tax, claiming benefits and being a drain on our public services. Unless they are high skilled and a great value to us, i.e. a nurse, we don't want them to arrive and stay. We can still have a scheme for people to come and work on the farms.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Interesting comment and highlights the real problem. i.e no one in authority ever gives a moments thought as to whether we have an ' optimum ' population figure in this country. i.e what figure can we sustain in this country before quality of life comes under pressure. Quality of life = the ability to move goods and services around, the ability of the population to move around, to get to their places of work on time. The quality of service available at schools, hospitals, surgeries etc. The availability of all services that the indigenous population take for granted.
We have a massive inbalance in this country. Most immigrants gravitate to areas of most work. The larger cities, London and the SE. They also gravitate to their own communities, lessening general integration and creating more and more ghetto areas.
We have had 20 years of uncontrolled immigration and it has taken its toil on the fabric of our society. It cannot continue unabated. We have to recognise that we do not have limitless space and resources in this country. There is a social responsibility to wrest back some sort of control, difficult as it is.

It's not been 'uncontrolled'! We have had free movement from the EU, which increased with the accession of additional countries to the EU, but we have had and continue to have controlled immigration from outside the EU. I'm not sure what type of communities you are referring to in terms of not integrating.

EU migration has always been fairly transient, not permanent with many workers returning home, especially as their own economies improve.

So you're final point, given immigration from outside the EU exceeds that from the EU, why have we not wrested back some sort of control, because we have been able to do that in or out of the EU? Why has the Conservative Party, elected twice on the ticket of reducing immigration, we've seen immigration from the rest of the world increase, while immigration from the EU, which we don't control has decreased?

 

[wellquickwoody]

As I said yesterday, self-serving selfish scum is the best I can come up with to describe the action of the Tory party to protect themselves and themselves only. If you or I had been so inept, and failed so spectacularly in our jobs, we’d be at the job centre now. In fact the vast majority of people would. We would not vote ourselves back in and then carry on as though nothing happened whilst stubbornly claimed to be able to find the solution when absolutely nothing she has said or done in the past 2 years has shown she can. She has just suffered the worst defeat ever in British history. For **** sake do the decent and honerable thing and walk Theresa May....and please do it in something other than those nauseous leather trousers...you’re too old for them.

Have to agree about the leather trousers, and if the Labour Party had a sensible leader then my objections would be far less. But Corbyn is not capable of looking after a set of car keys (can he drive?) let alone those to Number 10. He is a principled village idiot, seems nice and cuddly but through his own ineptitude would make failure the norm.

 

[Diablo]

My take is there is such a difference between what we want and what Europe willing to give ......... A deal is nigh impossible.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Corbyn is absolutely right that no deal must come off the table in any Brexit negotiations.
No deal benefits nobody apart from a few City speculators - who of course are often Tory party donors.
Is that the reason May won’t rule it out I wonder?

Millions which could be spent on the NHS and giving starving kids enough to eat now being wasted on fake 'no deal preparations' like a crap artificial traffic jam at Dover.
The WI could make a better jam than that.
Unbelievable.

As well meaning as JC, as naive as Corbyn.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Glad you included the word 'members.'

Certainly not the same as voters - especially in the North - Caroline Flint wrote an excellent article in the Guardian recently about her duty to her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/16/labour-mp-deal-no-deal-eu-brexit

Yes, members aren't the same as voters - only 73% of them are apparently backing remain.

She's not backing remaining/a 2nd vote, but Caroline Flint recognises the disaster no deal will be for her constituents.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yes, you paint a picture that is realistic. So ending free movement and choosing who we need is a benefit but the over supply of the workforce will end because it holds down wages.

EU = uncontrolled immigration, anyone can come and steal jobs from low skilled British citizens which in turn lowers their wages. Low skilled migrants from the EU, either move their familes here, start a family here and claim benefits. While others send part of their wages and benefits back to their family at home. They cost us money by not paying as much tax, claiming benefits and being a drain on our public services. Unless they are high skilled and a great value to us, i.e. a nurse, we don't want them to arrive and stay. We can still have a scheme for people to come and work on the farms.

Well, you have your opinions, no one is going to change your mind, I could post numerous statistical evidence of skills shortages across different industries, that EU immigration brings in far more money than it loses in benefits or other payments etc. etc. but it's pretty clear it will fall on deaf ears.