[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

FoM is not a founding principle of the EU. It is a founding principle of the single market, alongside the other three freedoms - movement of capital, services & goods - which no-one in the UK ever mentions because, as one of the "big old" EU members, they suit us just fine.

It took the better part of a decade to create the single market. Millions of person-hours in meeting rooms, thrashing out the ball-achingly dull minutiae of it all. But guess what? It actually works. Frictionless trade between more than two dozen countries that have spent much of the last two millennia invading, fighting or subjugating each other instead. This is why they weren't bluffing when they said, before, during and for more than two years after the referendum, that the four freedoms are indivisible. Take away any one of the freedoms and the single market is not a single market any more. It is not going to happen - not for any of the 27, and most certainly not for a former *EU* member that wants to leave.

You can be a member of the EU. Or not. You can also be a member of the single market. Or not. But if you want to be a member of the single market, you must - fairly reasonably, imo - abide by its rules, regardless of whether you are in the EU or not.

And while leaving the EU is just very, very stupid (again, imo), leaving the single market is, by any objective analysis of the actual numbers, f***ing insane.

I wish I could give you more than one thumbs up for an excellent post.

 

[Baldseagull]

Perhaps national governments have a responsibility to their own people first and foremost. Oh, and do please be aware that I am firmly in the remain camp.

I hate the argument that a hardworking willing and able guy from overseas is a negative.

 

[sir albion]

Do love the way the media (sky news) this morning are doing their best to manipulate people with pointless polls and getting old leaders on.Idiot students wanting a new vote because they can vote nowbloody hilarious
Can you imagine this country in 20 years time as a liberal society

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If an untrained, uneducated, illiterate foreigner is too much competition for you, perhaps you need to work harder.

Good point, very well made.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do love the way the media (sky news) this morning are doing their best to manipulate people with pointless polls and getting old leaders on.Idiot students wanting a new vote because they can vote nowbloody hilarious
Can you imagine this country in 20 years time as a liberal society

Pointless polls manipulate people? How does that work? I'm looking forward to reading about your psychological qualifications, and evidence of such manipulations.

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[Herr Tubthumper]

Pointless polls manipulate people? How does that work? I'm looking forward to reading about your psychological qualifications,

I’d be interested to hear if he has any qualifications.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[melias shoes]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...ipped-to-rebound-on-italian-budget-relief/amp
Everything tickerty-boo in euro zone is it? Glad to be leaving.

 

[The Clamp]

Do love the way the media (sky news) this morning are doing their best to manipulate people with pointless polls and getting old leaders on.Idiot students wanting a new vote because they can vote nowbloody hilarious
Can you imagine this country in 20 years time as a liberal society

Legally the referendum was nothing more than an opinion poll.

 

[WATFORD zero]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...ipped-to-rebound-on-italian-budget-relief/amp
Everything tickerty-boo in euro zone is it? Glad to be leaving.

Is this where the pro-Brexit argument is now ?

An article about something we aren't in, were never in and weren't going to join - talk about desperation

Remind me again, what was it you were hoping to get out of Brexit ?

 

[melias shoes]

Is this where the pro-Brexit argument is now ?

An article about something we aren't in, were never in and weren't going to join - talk about desperation

Remind me again, what was it you were hoping to get out of Brexit ?

How many times. Complete break. No connection. Is that clear

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Legally the referendum was nothing more than an opinion poll.

An unsophisticated opinion poll for sure, but one given authority by parliament. That's why its verdict cannot be ignored.

It hasn't been ignored but if parliament finds that it is unable to reach agreement on how to implement the people's decision in a way that will not, in its view, damage the national interest, then the only way forward is for it to refer the matter back to the people, along with all new information now available.

The question in such circumstances is whether the consultation mechanism should be an election or a referendum.

Referendums are blunt instruments but for me he best way of countering one is with another. A referendum on the deal will retain the sense of a level playing field, even if the questions are different and far more nuanced from the first time around.

I cannot possibly see the Conservatives agreeing to a referendum. If Remain wins a referendum the government will be split and the party destroyed. If they lose a GE then at least it will be Labour's problem. Someone else can pick up the wreckage, and perhaps create plenty more of its own. For the conservative party, as has been the case since at least 2015, the national interest is not exactly its priority.

The Tory Party is, however, traditionally good at surviving. My own guess is that it, and the EU, will agree a blurred fudge to get themselves over the line in March without either. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[melias shoes]

Is this where the pro-Brexit argument is now ?

An article about something we aren't in, were never in and weren't going to join - talk about desperation

Remind me again, what was it you were hoping to get out of Brexit ?

Keep burying your head old boy.

 

[WATFORD zero]

How many times. Complete break. No connection. Is that clear

I thought you wanted to get rid of foreign workers who are not skilled, forever having fag breaks and leaving early, and yet, somehow, are still outperforming you

I could tell you a few things about those foreign workers.
You see I'm what you call in the front line. I'm in construction and these SO CALLED skilled workers are far from that. As for hard working don't make me laugh. On a site where I am they start after us,are forever having fag breaks and rarely still at work after3pm. A whole hour and half before we leave. Baring in mind we start at 7.30am.
I'm sorry 52% is the will of the people. Do the maths.

 

[melias shoes]

I thought you wanted to get rid of foreign workers who are not skilled, forever having fag breaks and leaving early, and yet, somehow, are still outperforming you

Don't be bloody ridiculous. I didn't say I wanted to get rid of them. Stop twisting things to suit your agenda. Where in that post does it say i want to get rid of them. As for outperforming....NOW you are being stupid.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don't be bloody ridiculous. I didn't say I wanted to get rid of them. Stop twisting things to suit your agenda. Where in that post does it say i want to get rid of them. As for outperforming....NOW you are being stupid.

You're the one using the Euro zone as an example of out performing. We aren't in the Euro, as we had a veto and chose not to. So much for Brussels/Merkel telling us what to do.

 

[Mtoto]

How many times. Complete break. No connection. Is that clear

Meaning no flights, no trade, build a wall on the Irish border and block up the Eurotunnel?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I was accused of exaggurating when I said that no-deal would mean the lights go out in Northern Ireland. Seems HMG are starting to admit there are severe problems in this area at least

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-45657966

NI is dependent on ROI generated power and ROI gas and landed LPG; if supplying that becomes impossible they're back to their own installed non-gas power generation capacity which is grossly insufficient. This is also ignoring the potential issues with using the grids due to the owner of the entire NI electrical transmission and distribution network and the vast bulk of the gas grid - the ROI government. Privatisation of critical infrastructure was really a VERY bad idea.

The plans from the Ulster Workers Council strike in the 80s may be needed again - involved bringing the nuclear subs into Belfast Lough and connecting their reactors up!

Meaning no flights, no trade, build a wall on the Irish border and block up the Eurotunnel?

It's worse than that for some parts of the UK. People really do not understand the implications of no deal or no trade.

 

[golddene]

Actually it was the Tories that offered the referendum and implemented it. It was then lies from both camps that got us the result that came. Lies from leavers about the benefits of leaving and lies from remainers about the consequences of leaving. And then finally we are where we are today because of the complete incompetence of May.

Maybe when Ken Clarke and Malcombe Rifkind were discussing her in the "difficult woman" sketch, they were fooling their peers into thinking she was indeed competent, when all along they knew the disaster she has been? What a total ballsup!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

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