[Politics] Brexit

[larus]

If they have ANY sense they will realise it will be political suicide to brexit with a no deal. It will ruin the country and they will get voted out in the next election post brexit. They will do what suits them best: have a referendum to ask again and hope we decide to stay, thus saving their arses.

So you have no clue then. Not surprised there.

 

[The Clamp]

Can any of the remainers on here explain to me how they think they’re going to get another vote on stopping Brexit?

Serious question. No replies needed about identify or loss of ‘freedom’, etc.

The Tories won’t give another vote.
Labour have fudged the clause which will be voted on tomorrow to be woolly again, but McDonald was clear, as has McClucky been, that remaining in the EU is not an option even if they have another vote. Corbyn is Anti EU (he’s voted against it EVERY time when he was a back bencher). Labour has been able to sit on the fence and let the Tories squabble over this, but news reports state that they are as divided as the Tories. If they were in power, it would likely be as much of a bodge as Remainer TM is making of it.

We’re leaving 29th March, either with or without a transition deal. Once we’ve left, we’d have to apply to join again.

I understand that you want to remain.
I understand you think it will be a disaster.
But how/when do you think this new vote will/could get called if both parties appear to be against it?

I think a second referendum unlikely. The only way out of this mess is to simply call it off and deal with the fallout. But I doubt that will happen either. I am pretty much resigned to the idea we are just going to fall head first off the cliff and suffer the consequences. May will be in Southern France of course with her trotters up.

 

[daveinplzen]

So you have no clue then. Not surprised there.

Would you prefer financial ruin for the country to avoid a second referendum (and be a "winner")? What success for the country do you see in the future if we leave with no deal?

 

[GT49er]

Most didn't. The vote was swayed by fears regarding immigration. Leavers are rushing to say lately for most it was all about leaving the EU institution. Thats bollocks., and they know it.

Sorry, forgot that you remainers know what everyone else is thinking. I expect you're quite outraged about what I'm thinking about you, eh?

 

[daveinplzen]

Sorry, forgot that you remainers know what everyone else is thinking. I expect you're quite outraged about what I'm thinking about you, eh?

Nope just laughing.

 

[larus]

Wait and see what happens in parliament in January if we're at a no deal stage, because it'll be up to parliament as a whole to decide if remaining in The EU is to be an option on a ballot paper, if a further vote takes place at all of course, not Corbyn, McDonnell or McCluskey.

Assuming that doesn't happen though, and the Article 50 period isn't extended and we just leave with no deal on March 29th, we'll be joining EFTA and The EEA for a time limited period at least soon enough, as no deal is just not sustainable, not rejoining The EU.

If it’s in January, there won’t be time to have another referendum. What would we be voting on? Staying in on the same terms or staying in on new terms? No rebate? Having to join the Euro?

There appears to be more moves now within the Tory party to prepare for No Deal.

I ignore all of the papers coming out from the government about the worst case scenario. For example, one paper today said that if we didn’t get airport security measures signed off/agreed by the EU (I can’t remember exactly what it related to - screening maybe), that, in effect, any passenger using a European hub (e.g. Amsterdam), would need to have their luggage rescanned at that airport. That ain’t going to happen - imagine KLM having to get passengers from the UK to collect baggage and then re-scan for the next leg of their flight. The EU will be under pressure to agree stuff like this.

 

[larus]

No, I outlined a very relistic scenario. There could be a 2nd referendum as the politicians will try to save themselves.

If you hadn’t noticed, there’s no-one that I can think of from the Tories saying that we should have another referendum. And Labour are trying to use weasel words to avoid it too. I would say out have less than a 1% chance of getting one.

 

[larus]

Would you prefer financial ruin for the country to avoid a second referendum (and be a "winner")? What success for the country do you see in the future if we leave with no deal?

There won’t be financial ruin. You believe too many of the scare stories from the remain treasury and Hammond.

The establishment have been proven to LIE. They LIED about what would happen if we didn’t join the Euro. They LIED about what would happen if we voted leave.

But, now, this time round, they’re really, really sure that they know exactly what’s going to happen. If anyone tells you what will happen with so many unknowns, they are full of BS.

I believe there will be disruption in the short-term.
I believe that a lot of this will be resolved quickly as it will be in the interest of both the EU and UK (recognising standards, airline security, etc.) as we are already aligned on this stuff.
I believe that in the long run we will become a more open economy and will reduce tariffs (taxes) which will help us.

The EU is a protectionist club, that’s why they have circa 12,000 tariffs they apply. It’s called protectionism.

So, I disagree with your doom mongering.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If anyone tells you what will happen with so many unknowns, they are full of BS..

I believe there will be disruption in the short-term.
I believe that a lot of this will be resolved quickly as it will be in the interest of both the EU and UK (recognising standards, airline security, etc.) as we are already aligned on this stuff.
I believe that in the long run we will become a more open economy and will reduce tariffs (taxes) which will help us..

So, you’re full of BS then?

 

[ManOfSussex]

If it’s in January, there won’t be time to have another referendum. What would we be voting on? Staying in on the same terms or staying in on new terms? No rebate? Having to join the Euro?

There appears to be more moves now within the Tory party to prepare for No Deal.

I ignore all of the papers coming out from the government about the worst case scenario. For example, one paper today said that if we didn’t get airport security measures signed off/agreed by the EU (I can’t remember exactly what it related to - screening maybe), that, in effect, any passenger using a European hub (e.g. Amsterdam), would need to have their luggage rescanned at that airport. That ain’t going to happen - imagine KLM having to get passengers from the UK to collect baggage and then re-scan for the next leg of their flight. The EU will be under pressure to agree stuff like this.

Another 'referendum' could only take place if The Article 50 process is extended anyway and 'remaining' therefore would have to be on the same terms. It's unlikely to happen, but not impossible.

I appreciate you like to ignore the impact papers because it's Project Fear and you think as a 3rd party country we'll get special treatment and an agreement reached, despite one not happening yet and despite Mrs May's ECJ red lines. The Airports Council International memo to Barnier in regards to the above was leaked and reported last week ahead of Salzburg, to no avail, before today's impact papers were published on the same matter. Mark Rutte said The Netherlands is better prepared for no deal than The UK when asked about it as well.

 

[The Clamp]

It is, for once, a pity we don't have a political system like the US." Big Business" would have shut Brexit down within a month

 

[ManOfSussex]

There won’t be financial ruin. You believe too many of the scare stories from the remain treasury and Hammond.

The establishment have been proven to LIE. They LIED about what would happen if we didn’t join the Euro. They LIED about what would happen if we voted leave.

But, now, this time round, they’re really, really sure that they know exactly what’s going to happen. If anyone tells you what will happen with so many unknowns, they are full of BS.

I believe there will be disruption in the short-term.
I believe that a lot of this will be resolved quickly as it will be in the interest of both the EU and UK (recognising standards, airline security, etc.) as we are already aligned on this stuff.
I believe that in the long run we will become a more open economy and will reduce tariffs (taxes) which will help us.

The EU is a protectionist club, that’s why they have circa 12,000 tariffs they apply. It’s called protectionism.

So, I disagree with your doom mongering.

As well as being a climate change sceptic, what other paranoid conspiracy theories do you believe in? Do the think the establishment you mention above lied about Princess Diana too and she was really killed by MI6 and The Duke of Edinburgh?

 

[astralavi]

If you hadn’t noticed, there’s no-one that I can think of from the Tories saying that we should have another referendum. And Labour are trying to use weasel words to avoid it too. I would say out have less than a 1% chance of getting one.

Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Justine Greening, Guto Bebb and Philip Lee have publicly called for it. (estimates are 15-20 Tory's if/when push comes to shove)

Labour's leadership main aim it seems is not a referendum but to stay in the CU and SM

 

[The Rivet]

Most didn't. The vote was swayed by fears regarding immigration. Leavers are rushing to say lately for most it was all about leaving the EU institution. Thats bollocks., and they know it.

Absolute juvenile assertion/conclusion.

 

[The Rivet]

As well as being a climate change sceptic, what other paranoid conspiracy theories do you believe in? Do the think the establishment you mention above lied about Princess Diana too and she was really killed by MI6 and The Duke of Edinburgh?

Is the earth flat?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Justine Greening, Guto Bebb and Philip Lee have publicly called for it. (estimates are 15-20 Tory's if/when push comes to shove)

Labour's leadership main aim it seems is not a referendum but to stay in the CU and SM

Indeed. There was also a piece published here today from Nicky Morgan arguing that EFTA/EEA is the only thing there'll be a parliamentary majority for - https://www.conservativehome.com/th...lan-that-mps-will-now-vote-for-is-norway.html

 

[ManOfSussex]

Is the earth flat?

Perhaps the establishment lied to us about that as well.

 

[shingle]

I feel I am living in a different country to the one I thought I lived in. What I can't get is how millions of working class people feel they have more in common with Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage than a Polish plumber. I know who I want to see the back of.

The Labour party can no longer take for granted the vote of the working class. Old Labour politicians like Benn, Skinner, Healey etc might have had the backs of the working man, but modern day Labour are seen as contemptious of the working man, and the working man knows it and I am not the least bit surprised that traditional Labour voters who wouldn't have given Eton educated toffs like Johnson and Rees Mogg the time of day 30 years ago now feel that they have more in common with them than the current crop of Labour politicians.

 

[daveinplzen]

There won’t be financial ruin. You believe too many of the scare stories from the remain treasury and Hammond.

The establishment have been proven to LIE. They LIED about what would happen if we didn’t join the Euro. They LIED about what would happen if we voted leave.

But, now, this time round, they’re really, really sure that they know exactly what’s going to happen. If anyone tells you what will happen with so many unknowns, they are full of BS.

I believe there will be disruption in the short-term.
I believe that a lot of this will be resolved quickly as it will be in the interest of both the EU and UK (recognising standards, airline security, etc.) as we are already aligned on this stuff.
I believe that in the long run we will become a more open economy and will reduce tariffs (taxes) which will help us.

The EU is a protectionist club, that’s why they have circa 12,000 tariffs they apply. It’s called protectionism.

So, I disagree with your doom mongering.

Yeah? IMF seems to think different as do many. what is 'short term' exactly?

 

[daveinplzen]

Absolute juvenile assertion/conclusion.

Not in the slightest.