[Politics] Brexit

[clapham_gull]

I do find it funny that members of the Labour party have suddenly woken up to the fact that their leader doesn't like the EU very much.

Obviously, too busy attending non binary bongo playing and stilts walking workshops for anyone wishing to attend Glastonbury.

Fascinating times. You own a medium sized business and have the opportunity to give 1% for the chance to stay in the EU.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Anyway. Looking ahead to Saturday it’s going to be a tough game and Dunk and Duffy will need to be at the top of their game to stop that American Sergio Agüero.

# [MENTION=14132]Two Professors[/MENTION]
#WhatAMuppet

 

[melias shoes]

The Labour party can no longer take for granted the vote of the working class. Old Labour politicians like Benn, Skinner, Healey etc might have had the backs of the working man, but modern day Labour are seen as contemptious of the working man, and the working man knows it and I am not the least bit surprised that traditional Labour voters who wouldn't have given Eton educated toffs like Johnson and Rees Mogg the time of day 30 years ago now feel that they have more in common with them than the current crop of Labour politicians.

Pie in the sky politics. Fantasy policies.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

There won’t be financial ruin. You believe too many of the scare stories from the remain treasury and Hammond.

The establishment have been proven to LIE. They LIED about what would happen if we didn’t join the Euro. They LIED about what would happen if we voted leave.

But, now, this time round, they’re really, really sure that they know exactly what’s going to happen. If anyone tells you what will happen with so many unknowns, they are full of BS.

I believe there will be disruption in the short-term.
I believe that a lot of this will be resolved quickly as it will be in the interest of both the EU and UK (recognising standards, airline security, etc.) as we are already aligned on this stuff.
I believe that in the long run we will become a more open economy and will reduce tariffs (taxes) which will help us.

The EU is a protectionist club, that’s why they have circa 12,000 tariffs they apply. It’s called protectionism.

So, I disagree with your doom mongering.

You are half right. The Customs Union with its Common External Tariff has a trade diversion (protectionism if you like) effect. The lack of internal tariffs has a trade creation effect. The Single Market considerably adds to this as does any collective external free trade deals achieved collectively. Thrown in the friction-less labour market and the competitive gains from greater price transparency plus the relatively free movement of capital and you have a model that is unique and arguably pretty effective. Not perfect, not perfectible but rather more sophisticated than simple 'protectionism'. The alternaive is not free trade but a dog's breakfast of ad hoc deals in a protectionist world.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Can any of the remainers on here explain to me how they think they’re going to get another vote on stopping Brexit?

Serious question. No replies needed about identify or loss of ‘freedom’, etc.

The Tories won’t give another vote.
Labour have fudged the clause which will be voted on tomorrow to be woolly again, but McDonald was clear, as has McClucky been, that remaining in the EU is not an option even if they have another vote. Corbyn is Anti EU (he’s voted against it EVERY time when he was a back bencher). Labour has been able to sit on the fence and let the Tories squabble over this, but news reports state that they are as divided as the Tories. If they were in power, it would likely be as much of a bodge as Remainer TM is making of it.

We’re leaving 29th March, either with or without a transition deal. Once we’ve left, we’d have to apply to join again.

I understand that you want to remain.
I understand you think it will be a disaster.
But how/when do you think this new vote will/could get called if both parties appear to be against it?

desperate times for the last chance saloon gang on here, day dreaming their way to stopping Brexit , pure fantasists and so entertaining
regards
DR

 

[Simster]

So you have no clue then. Not surprised there.

You're not really asking anything of any substance.

We lost, we're leaving. I'd love a 2nd vote but given the Labour party are run by protectionists, I can't see them giving democracy a second go now that they've got their wish, regardless of whether or not rank and file Labour members actually want.

The best we can hope for is a very soft Brexit and then the campaign to get back in will start. Sadly, we'll probably have to take the Euro as part of re-entry but whilst not ideal, it will prove a small price to pay for full access to the single market on our doorstep. You know, once we've realised all these deals with Guinea, Gabon, Chile and Pakistan haven't yielded the vast riches we were promised by Brexiteers.

 

[Simster]

The Labour party can no longer take for granted the vote of the working class. Old Labour politicians like Benn, Skinner, Healey etc might have had the backs of the working man, but modern day Labour are seen as contemptious of the working man, and the working man knows it and I am not the least bit surprised that traditional Labour voters who wouldn't have given Eton educated toffs like Johnson and Rees Mogg the time of day 30 years ago now feel that they have more in common with them than the current crop of Labour politicians.

This is complete rubbish.

If it was even half true, we wouldn't be in the pitiful situation where 80% of UK constituencies are safe seats.

 

[Simster]

desperate times for the last chance saloon gang on here, day dreaming their way to stopping Brexit , pure fantasists and so entertaining
regards
DR

10 post mediocre Daily Express link
20 post "we're on our way", only badly punctuated
30 post tedious one-liner in response to anyone vastly more intelligent than PPF (anyone on the thread)
40 Goto 10

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're not really asking anything of any substance.

We lost, we're leaving. I'd love a 2nd vote but given the Labour party are run by protectionists, I can't see them giving democracy a second go now that they've got their wish, regardless of whether or not rank and file Labour members actually want.

The best we can hope for is a very soft Brexit and then the campaign to get back in will start. Sadly, we'll probably have to take the Euro as part of re-entry but whilst not ideal, it will prove a small price to pay for full access to the single market on our doorstep. You know, once we've realised all these deals with Guinea, Gabon, Chile and Pakistan haven't yielded the vast riches we were promised by Brexiteers.

The trade deal with Pakistan will be amusing. I so hope it involves work visas. It’ll be hilarious when thousands of pakis arrive and take over the recently vacated Polish skleps. I can hope.



(written in a language Brexiteers can understand)

 

[WATFORD zero]

The trade deal with Pakistan will be amusing. I so hope it involves work visas. It’ll be hilarious when thousands of pakis arrive and take over the recently vacated Polish skleps. I can hope.



(written in a language Brexiteers can understand)

How many times do I have to tell you, it wasn't about immigration

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How many times do I have to tell you, it wasn't about immigration

View attachment 100850

Instead of those proven hard working contributors we’re lumbered with this lot

 

[GT49er]

Nope just laughing.

Mind reading not too good then. Bad remoaner!

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Make sure you get the correct insurance, folks, because the Government won't help you.

https://twitter.com/jeremydcape/status/1044236484201648129?s=19


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Make sure you get the correct insurance, folks, because the Government won't help you.

https://twitter.com/jeremydcape/status/1044236484201648129?s=19


https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

I recently received the government’s thoughts on how to run my business in the event of a no-deal. Jesus wept. One part advised me to consult with trade boards and bodies.....why will they know more? I recall northern Irish business were told to talk to the government over the border. Absolute farce of a government.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Brexiteers are correct! Experts are rubbish and their forecasts are crap. Well, this appears to be the case with their own in-house 'expert'. Here the flaws (I wont say deceits because it's rude) in his model are cruelly exposed. (This is the platform which JRM and his pals sat on yesterday and were proud to be associated with.) If any Brexiteers can do better please feel free to post.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45625724

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Justine Greening, Guto Bebb and Philip Lee have publicly called for it. (estimates are 15-20 Tory's if/when push comes to shove)

Labour's leadership main aim it seems is not a referendum but to stay in the CU and SM

The Labour Party has been generally weaselly about Brexit but with a policy of staying in the CU and SM they are announcing that they will vote against anything May comes home with, even a Chequers-lite. Chequers, or something close to it, remains the government's aim after yesterday's cabinet meeting. I assume that May's calculation is that if she manages to present such a deal to the house there will be as many Labour MPs ignoring their party's whips and voting for it as there will be ERG Tories doing the same in the opposite direction. (Those promoting a Canada-style deal will be making a not dissimilar calculation.)

If May (or any successor) is wrong we will be in the same position as we would be if there was a vote on 'no-deal'. Parliament would be unable to agree on a way forward and in that circumstance I imagine that May would feel she had no option but to ask the EU for a section 50 postponement in order to 'put the decision back to the people'. GE or referendum?

You can understand why she would prefer an election to a referendum. If a referendum confirmed Leave then she would have a mandate to take the country to the place its people had just voted to be taken to, a place most MPs think would be a total disaster. If the vote was Remain then that would almost certainly be the end of the Conservative Party for a generation or more. A general election would have no such disastrous downside - if the Tories won then she should have the numbers to win a vote in the HoC and if they lost, well, everything would then be the Labour Party's problem.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[larus]

So, you’re full of BS then?

Maybe you're losing your understanding of English.

My post, which you quoted, said anyone who tells you they KNOW. I said I believe (i.e my opinion).

1/10 for trolling effort.

 

[larus]

Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Justine Greening, Guto Bebb and Philip Lee have publicly called for it. (estimates are 15-20 Tory's if/when push comes to shove)

Labour's leadership main aim it seems is not a referendum but to stay in the CU and SM

Justine Greening has stated she think we should implement leave.

 

[Baldseagull]

The Labour party can no longer take for granted the vote of the working class. Old Labour politicians like Benn, Skinner, Healey etc might have had the backs of the working man, but modern day Labour are seen as contemptious of the working man, and the working man knows it and I am not the least bit surprised that traditional Labour voters who wouldn't have given Eton educated toffs like Johnson and Rees Mogg the time of day 30 years ago now feel that they have more in common with them than the current crop of Labour politicians.

Good response to a statement I didn't make.