[Politics] Brexit

[Klaas]

Oh yes, the anti-EU riots in...where was it?.....and when exactly? No, didn't happen, did it - now, start trying to deal in facts, not insults.


And as for "Clearly you haven't opened a British newspaper for the past few decades" - haven't your remoaner mates drummed it into you yet that all leavers are thick old racist Daily Mail readers.

Christ you really take the playing the victim prize don't you? Not a day goes by on NSC, and it can be on any thread that you might be unsuspectingly browsing, as sure as night follows day, there will be gt49er bleating about how remoaners label brexiters thick old racists.

Mate, I put the word 'hysteria' in bold, my point being that sections of the British press have been lying about the EU for decades. That's a demonstrable fact.

 

[The Clamp]

Your Grandfather was a very wise man.You are as thick as mince.

Doesn't take you long to resort to insults. eh!

 

[Simster]

Still got your strange piggy-parts fetish?So last year,just like all remainers!I would rather have a pea-brain and a large penis,than a large brain with a maggot and two peas like you mob.

I'm sorry, I just can't compete with sophisticated wit like that.

 

[Two Professors]

Doesn't take you long to resort to insults. eh!

You started it,or rather your Grandfather did.

 

[The Clamp]

You started it,or rather your Grandfather did.

Christ, you're weird.

 

[Gwylan]

The first person to mention Boris Johnson this morning as a untrustworthy chancer is a leaver, my pea-brained gammony friend.

That's because Johnson IS an untrustworthy chancer. I wouldn't trust him to tell the right time. I've been following politics for nearly 50 years and he's easily the most dishonourable, unscrupulous, devious chiseller that I've ever seen. I can only wonder at the mental state of the burghers of Uxbridge who continue to vote for the lazy, mendacious scumbag.

 

[GT49er]

That is all perfectly reasonable - and for some, maybe most, Leave voters, that would be their viewpoint.

But entirely unconnected to the point I just made - that 2 years on people ARE far more informed about the complexity of leaving, and the risks involved, and thus SOME may now feel that the risks and problems outweigh the perceived benefits.

SOME......? Maybe, but not, I think, any significant number. Right from the start, Remain has totally misunderstood and underestimated the strength of leave feeling. After all, Cameron only called the referendum in the arrogant belief that he couldn't possibly lose. Then the remain campaign concentrated almost exclusively on the financial aspect - GDP will drop, you will be a few bob a week worse off, etc. - to which the Leavers response was, "So what? We still want to leave". And now, I think, remainers are desperately clinging to the hope that leavers will suddenly change their minds - perhaps more clutching at straws than clinging to a hope. The Government not making a good job of the negotiations, and a Parliamentary majority trying to hinder them every step of the way is likely to strengthen opinion, not change it.
Will I be proved right? I don't know. Do I hope I'm proved right? - damn right I do!

 

[The Clamp]

EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals



'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1537261486

 

[Two Professors]

That's because Johnson IS an untrustworthy chancer. I wouldn't trust him to tell the right time. I've been following politics for nearly 50 years and he's easily the most dishonourable, unscrupulous, devious chiseller that I've ever seen. I can only wonder at the mental state of the burghers of Uxbridge who continue to vote for the lazy, mendacious scumbag.

I can easily think of worse.How about Nick Clegg,or Jeremy Thorpe,for starters?

 

[Two Professors]

EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals



'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1537261486

Done to death already.The skilled ones contribute more,the unskilled ones take a lot more out and there are more of them.Next.

 

[The Clamp]

Done to death already.The skilled ones contribute more,the unskilled ones take a lot more out and there are more of them.Next.

Skipping over the inconvenient facts? What a surprise.

But I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt. What figures do you have to support your assertion? And how much do they take from us?

 

[Super Steve Earle]

That's total bollocks. It's clear that there are politicians, on both sides of the Brexit debate, who hold very clear and sincere views about the EU. Furthermore, these politicians will act against their own self-interest to promote those views. Why has Anna Soubry endured a campaign of vilification and even threats if she didn't believe in Remaining? Why has Kate Hoey risked deselection as an MP by persisting in voting to leave. Both these politicians (and there are others) have acted completely against their self-interest in continuing the debate. And there are politicians who ignore their own beliefs: look at how May, a Remainer, has doggedly stuck to her Brexit plans, going completely against what she personally believes.

I know politicians get a bad press (and often it's deserved) but in this instance, with one exception, I can't think of a single politician who has put self-interest above his or her own beliefs.

The exception is, of course, Boris Johnson who cast aside his own support for the EU in favour of pursuing his own personal ambition. But you can't judge all politicians by Johnson's standard.

With more respect than you have afforded my opinion, it isn't bollocks. This entire session of parliament should have been entirely devoted to getting the best Brexit deal for Britain. MPs of all parties should have focussed almost entirely upon this alone, rather than any of the other sideshows around personal convictions and a further referendum. These have no relevance. The decision to leave has been made. Al the MPs had to do was one thing - concentrate on getting the best deal for Britain. Sadly, the ability to set aside personal views, opinions, ambition, party colours, leadership discussions etc has proved beyond most of them and the British electorate is the loser. It's UK v EU and UK is not exactly #Together.

 

[GT49er]

Christ you really take the playing the victim prize don't you? Not a day goes by on NSC, and it can be on any thread that you might be unsuspectingly browsing, as sure as night follows day, there will be gt49er bleating about how remoaners label brexiters thick old racists.

Mate, I put the word 'hysteria' in bold, my point being that sections of the British press have been lying about the EU for decades. That's a demonstrable fact.

I give up trying to reason with idiotic posts like yours. " Not a day goes by" - factually incorrect. Remoaners do frequently bleat that leavers are od, thick racists. That is fact, and a common theme both on NSC and elsewhere. And as for 'victim' - what bollox. We won the referendum and I'm f**kin' delighted!
Now, I don't suppose there's much chance of you boring off, but I'm off to enjoy life and contemplate a happy future outside the EU. 'Bye.......

 

[Simster]

That's because Johnson IS an untrustworthy chancer. I wouldn't trust him to tell the right time. I've been following politics for nearly 50 years and he's easily the most dishonourable, unscrupulous, devious chiseller that I've ever seen. I can only wonder at the mental state of the burghers of Uxbridge who continue to vote for the lazy, mendacious scumbag.

I'd have to agree. He's totally untrustworthy.

And if the pendulum ever swings so far towards remain that a second vote proves hard to resist, he'll insisting it was his idea and then he'll swap sides . Again.

I wonder what Two Professor-Peabrain will have to say about him then if it happens?

 

[Klaas]

I give up trying to reason with idiotic posts like yours. " Not a day goes by" - factually incorrect. Remoaners do frequently bleat that leavers are od, thick racists. That is fact, and a common theme both on NSC and elsewhere. And as for 'victim' - what bollox. We won the referendum and I'm f**kin' delighted!
Now, I don't suppose there's much chance of you boring off, but I'm off to enjoy life and contemplate a happy future outside the EU. 'Bye.......

Your post count suggests otherwise.

 

[The Clamp]

Your post count suggests otherwise.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Still got your strange piggy-parts fetish?So last year,just like all remainers!I would rather have a pea-brain and a large penis,than a large brain with a maggot and two peas like you mob.

Well you're certainly half way there

 

[hans kraay fan club]

SOME......? Maybe, but not, I think, any significant number. Right from the start, Remain has totally misunderstood and underestimated the strength of leave feeling. After all, Cameron only called the referendum in the arrogant belief that he couldn't possibly lose. Then the remain campaign concentrated almost exclusively on the financial aspect - GDP will drop, you will be a few bob a week worse off, etc. - to which the Leavers response was, "So what? We still want to leave". And now, I think, remainers are desperately clinging to the hope that leavers will suddenly change their minds - perhaps more clutching at straws than clinging to a hope. The Government not making a good job of the negotiations, and a Parliamentary majority trying to hinder them every step of the way is likely to strengthen opinion, not change it.
Will I be proved right? I don't know. Do I hope I'm proved right? - damn right I do!

This is civilized discussion, which is nice, and rare for this thread. I do accept most of your points, and genuinely, I'm sure you are right that a great many Leave voters are of the same mindset. However, with the vote being so very close (within the parameters that Farage himself set as being inconclusive) it really doesn't need a hugely significant number to reconsider, for 'public opinion' to have shifted.

I take issue specifically though, with the part I have bolded. It might be true for you, but it is patently not true for a great many Leave voters. The Remain camp did make it all about finances, but the average Joe Leave absolutely did not (IMO) accept they would 'be a few bob worse off' but decided they would still like to leave despite that. Joe swallowed the idea of 'Project Fear', believed that we were giving enormous sums to the EU (£350m / week, etc) and didn't think for a second he was going to be worse off.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I give up trying to reason with idiotic posts like yours. " Not a day goes by" - factually incorrect. Remoaners do frequently bleat that leavers are od, thick racists. That is fact, and a common theme both on NSC and elsewhere. And as for 'victim' - what bollox. We won the referendum and I'm f**kin' delighted!
Now, I don't suppose there's much chance of you boring off, but I'm off to enjoy life and contemplate a happy future outside the EU. 'Bye.......

I'd still rather have a quid for every Leaver post that claims this than a quid for every Remainer post that actually states it. I reckon the ratio is about 5:1. Certainly I've never stated it. And then I listen to the pre and post referendum 'man in the street' (Leaver Street) stuff and really your heart just sinks.

In fact the Leavers on this thread probably represent the Intellectual Wing of the movement - but I'm not sure if this is itself an insult or a compliment...………………...

 

[WATFORD zero]

With more respect than you have afforded my opinion, it isn't bollocks. This entire session of parliament should have been entirely devoted to getting the best Brexit deal for Britain. MPs of all parties should have focussed almost entirely upon this alone, rather than any of the other sideshows around personal convictions and a further referendum. These have no relevance. The decision to leave has been made. Al the MPs had to do was one thing - concentrate on getting the best deal for Britain. Sadly, the ability to set aside personal views, opinions, ambition, party colours, leadership discussions etc has proved beyond most of them and the British electorate is the loser. It's UK v EU and UK is not exactly #Together.

So if all MPs had united behind the government, and we had a negotiation team made up completely of leaver MPs (you have a choice of 138 Tory MPs, 10 Labour and 8 DUP as you've ruled out the other 479), what do you think the deal would have looked like ?

And same question to [MENTION=12935]GT49er[/MENTION] as he has similar views of the negotiation process ?

Which aspects do you think the EU would have backed down on ?