[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

Says the man who goes to the trouble of creating a jpeg of a story but won't put a link (or quote another poster) in case the Internet Goblins get him.

How's that pulse feel ?

Tit.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Double ouch

Macron: "Brexit is the choice of the British people... pushed by those who predicted easy solutions... Those people are liars. They left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it."

 

[Simster]

NOTHINGS CHANGED, THE VOTE WAS TO LEAVE you know the DEMOCRATIC ONE ?
regards
DR

I'm afraid it has, little fella. It's just not what we were promised.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

2nd ref?
It would depend what we were voting about. A lot of Brexit people just wanted to get the E U
off our backs and be a free nation again, we knew there would be a short term economic upset but hat faith in British industry and trade to build new partnerships.
If all we are getting is a half baked exit , almost in name only, then we might as well stay in and keep a voice at the table.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm afraid it has, little fella. It's just not what we were promised.

what were we promised ? apart from leaving the single market, customs union and ending free movement ie LEAVING THE EU COMPLETELY
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

2nd ref?
It would depend what we were voting about. A lot of Brexit people just wanted to get the E U
off our backs and be a free nation again, we knew there would be a short term economic upset but hat faith in British industry and trade to build new partnerships.
If all we are getting is a half baked exit , almost in name only, then we might as well stay in and keep a voice at the table.

squeak piggy squeak
regards
DR

 

[Two Professors]

Double ouch

Macron: "Brexit is the choice of the British people... pushed by those who predicted easy solutions... Those people are liars. They left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it."

Macron,the leader of a country with 22% youth unemployment to an unemployed trained gardener-"just cross the road.I'm sure there is a cafe with a vacancy".Got his family's snouts in the trough with him now and doesn't care.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1034496541065719808?lang=en
regards
DR

 

[daveinplzen]

Macron,the leader of a country with 22% youth unemployment to an unemployed trained gardener-"just cross the road.I'm sure there is a cafe with a vacancy".Got his family's snouts in the trough with him now and doesn't care.

So that makes him wrong regarding Brexit? Sounds like a nail on the head to me. What s your version of events?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

May - no second ref

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Agree - an obvious candidate for the stupidest idea of the year. If the UK does go down the EU route of referendums (keep holding new ones until they get the 'right' result) leavers boycotting it would result in a remain landslide.

Oh come on. The most quoted examples of those twice-held referendums are in Denmark and Ireland. In each case the people rejected certain elements of a treaty. The elements they objected to were looked at, modified or completely changed in an effort to meet their objections and they were then asked for their views on the modified document. That seems a good example of democracy to me, not a bad one. Your reference 'keep holding news ones until they get the right result' isn't fair.

 

[nicko31]

I'm afraid it has, little fella. It's just not what we were promised.

Tell the lies to get the mugs over the line, then try and fudge it latter when the lies can't be delivered.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Oh come on. The most quoted examples of those twice-held referendums are in Denmark and Ireland. In each case the people rejected certain elements of a treaty. The elements they objected to were looked at, modified or completely changed in an effort to meet their objections and they were then asked for their views on the modified document. That seems a good example of democracy to me, not a bad one. Your reference 'keep holding news ones until they get the right result' isn't fair.

ONE OF YOUR HEROES ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NpD8RFl3zQ
regards
DR

 

[nicko31]

ONE OF YOUR HEROES ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NpD8RFl3zQ
regards
DR

Yes a true "Robin Hood", reminded TM she a Prime Minister not a Monarch

A fine legacy that will live on way beyond Brexit, that protects your rights and mine from governments with dictatorial ambitions

 

[ManOfSussex]

That's RIP to the Chequers proposal today then. Judging by her press conference May's premiership might not be far behind it.

 

[The Clamp]

That's RIP to the Chequers proposal today then. Judging by her press conference May's premiership might not be far behind it.

She is outta here.

 

[nicko31]

That's RIP to the Chequers proposal today then. Judging by her press conference May's premiership might not be far behind it.

Not sure if ousting May will change anything..

Same divided Tory party, same EU framework, same parliamentary arithmetic

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Yes a true "Robin Hood", reminded TM she a Prime Minister not a Monarch

A fine legacy that will live on way beyond Brexit, that protects your rights and mine from governments with dictatorial ambitions

you'll be going down with her ship whilst blowing your trumpet
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Not sure if ousting May will change anything..

Same divided Tory party, same EU framework, same parliamentary arithmetic

yep BYE BYE EU
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

That's total bollocks. It's clear that there are politicians, on both sides of the Brexit debate, who hold very clear and sincere views about the EU. Furthermore, these politicians will act against their own self-interest to promote those views. Why has Anna Soubry endured a campaign of vilification and even threats if she didn't believe in Remaining? Why has Kate Hoey risked deselection as an MP by persisting in voting to leave. Both these politicians (and there are others) have acted completely against their self-interest in continuing the debate. And there are politicians who ignore their own beliefs: look at how May, a Remainer, has doggedly stuck to her Brexit plans, going completely against what she personally believes.

I know politicians get a bad press (and often it's deserved) but in this instance, with one exception, I can't think of a single politician who has put self-interest above his or her own beliefs.

The exception is, of course, Boris Johnson who cast aside his own support for the EU in favour of pursuing his own personal ambition. But you can't judge all politicians by Johnson's standard.

I agree with most of what you say, particularly the first para.

I would take you up on the second though. I am perhaps a little obsessive about the corrupting power of the whips but there seems no doubt to me that too many MPs have bowed to their carrots and sticks and gone against their deeply-held beliefs in order to have an easy life and maybe a nice little ministerial job in future. We can only watch from the side as hundreds of sheep are herded (flocked?) through the lobbies. There are far too few strays. The Frank Fields and Anna Soubrys are thin on the ground. Few have the courage to speak out and risk their personal ambitions. Ministers, as was pointed out this week, privately predict that Brexit will be a disaster whilst publicly offering their support for what they themselves see as a looming catastrophe.

I remember John Major's ******** in the early 90s. They looked a pretty loopy lot to me but I always had a slice of sneaking admiration for them. They were prepared to speak out on behalf, as some of them felt, of they people who elected them. Like the hard Brexiteers of today they probably represented not much more than 10 per cent of the house. They difference today is that the other 90 per cent are prepared to waft along, idly citing the largely-unclear 'will of the people' as they pursue their easy and profitable futures in Westminster.