[Politics] Brexit

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If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,099


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
daveinprague said:
Im concentrating quite well thank you. Your emotional outburst concerning two Ryan Air planes being parked at Luton airport (tentatively) was sweet.
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Try taking two breaths between tokes Dave.One obviously doesn't work.
 






Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
daveinprague said:
Dear me, electric stuff as usual from you. One doesnt work? Is that like profiles baker-lite?
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One doesn't work,because one is retired,Dave.On our way.:lolol:
Try 5 minutes between spliffs.
 


larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Neither side 'wants' hard borders as such as I think everyone respects the political sensitives of the Good Friday Agreement. There is though a deadlock on the way forward, with us lot thinking we can have some sort of soft border and the EU only putting up with this if N Ireland stays within the Customs Union (etc) and the actual border is in the North Sea - which T May doesn't accept (I can see why, especially when relying on the votes of the DUP).


Now I don't 'blame'* anyone for this as I think its a conundrum that is probably incapable of solution (hence temptation of the 'turn a blind eye' non-solution). But let's be honest this situation wouldn't have occurred without a hard(ish) Bexit and 'we started it' and the ball is in our court. Furthermore, Northern Ireland did actually vote to Remain and the Leaver side were very quiet on this issue during the campaign. Furthermore, the May's government have over-claimed the potential of a technological 'soft(ish)' border in a hard(ish) White Paper Brexit.

It all points (to me) as another chapter in the textbook called How Not to Do Brexit. And those terrible words of Fox ('the easiest' etc etc) would be the opening line to this classic text.


(*Oh bugger I've ended up blaming your side.)
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I understand what you are saying but disagree with some of your conclusions. The integrity of the UK cannot be undermined by Brexit. I’m not saying that NI cannot choose to leave and join a united Ireland if it chooses to in the future, but there is no way that a portion of the UK can be ring-fenced during the Brexit negotiations. Also, just because this is what the EU/ROI want, we don’t know if that is what NI would choose.

Yes, the UK are leaving the EU. I accept that it is something which we have caused but you have not answered my original point as to trade between the UK and EU will be subject to WTO rules if there is no deal. If that is the case, then do you accept that, if we have to police our border in NI, then the same MUST apply to the EU for the ROI?

This is the point I am trying to make, yet no one on the remain side seems to want to reply. I assume because the remain side can see clearly that it is the EU who must police their border, and if they say they won’t erect physical infrastructure (as Watford Zero keeps on saying we have to), then they would also be in breach of WTO rules.

That is the point - any breach would be by the UK and the EU.
 








D

daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic


Baker lite

Baker lite

Banned
Mar 16, 2017
6,309
in my house
bashlsdir said:
https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/gtech-taking-international-markets-by-storm/

At least someone has faith in this country.

Grey commented: “One piece of feedback I get repeatedly from the British public is, ‘Nick, why don’t you manufacture your products here?’, so we have designed a product to be manufactured here in the UK.”
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I’ve just about had enough of your positivity,nasty ,bitter,uneducated little Englander..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 




G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
larus said:
I understand what you are saying but disagree with some of your conclusions. The integrity of the UK cannot be undermined by Brexit. I’m not saying that NI cannot choose to leave and join a united Ireland if it chooses to in the future, but there is no way that a portion of the UK can be ring-fenced during the Brexit negotiations. Also, just because this is what the EU/ROI want, we don’t know if that is what NI would choose.

Yes, the UK are leaving the EU. I accept that it is something which we have caused but you have not answered my original point as to trade between the UK and EU will be subject to WTO rules if there is no deal. If that is the case, then do you accept that, if we have to police our border in NI, then the same MUST apply to the EU for the ROI?

This is the point I am trying to make, yet no one on the remain side seems to want to reply. I assume because the remain side can see clearly that it is the EU who must police their border, and if they say they won’t erect physical infrastructure (as Watford Zero keeps on saying we have to), then they would also be in breach of WTO rules.

That is the point - any breach would be by the UK and the EU.
Click to expand...

I guess that the position of the EU is simply to support the Irish in the Good Friday Agreement (= no border). That's the current policy. Should there be the need for a border then I'm assuming that the EU would want to protect the integrity of the Single Market and Customs Union by opting for a hard border - although it would be the Irish government which would literally be on the front line of such a decision. On a diplomatic and negotiating level I don't think either party wants to be seen to be talking about hard borders at this stage. The sides are a very long way apart, I feel.


(Pascal Lamy - former head of WTO and former EU Trade Commissioner - has on a number of occasions argued that a hard border will be almost impossible to avoid. But he can say this as he is not formally involved in the negotiations - and neither, of course, am I a 'spokesman' for the Remain side! I'm just a humble Remainer who can recognise an impossible situation when he sees one.)
 


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
bashlsdir said:
https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/gtech-taking-international-markets-by-storm/

At least someone has faith in this country.

Grey commented: “One piece of feedback I get repeatedly from the British public is, ‘Nick, why don’t you manufacture your products here?’, so we have designed a product to be manufactured here in the UK.”
Click to expand...

Good stuff. But looking at the final sentence below, I wonder if it will be as easy to target the Japanese market when we contract out of the EU trade agreement with the Japanese?

Gtech has reportedly sold more than 25 million domestic appliances in 18 countries to date and is now looking to further its international success – with Japan mooted as the company’s potential next focus.
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Good stuff. But looking at the final sentence below, I wonder if it will be as easy to target the Japanese market when we contract out of the EU trade agreement with the Japanese?

Gtech has reportedly sold more than 25 million domestic appliances in 18 countries to date and is now looking to further its international success – with Japan mooted as the company’s potential next focus.
Click to expand...

I must have missed it.When did the EU Parliament and all the member states approve the trade agreement with Japan coming in to force?
 








larus

larus

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
6,580
In the land of hope and expectation....
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I guess that the position of the EU is simply to support the Irish in the Good Friday Agreement (= no border). That's the current policy. Should there be the need for a border then I'm assuming that the EU would want to protect the integrity of the Single Market and Customs Union by opting for a hard border - although it would be the Irish government which would literally be on the front line of such a decision. On a diplomatic and negotiating level I don't think either party wants to be seen to be talking about hard borders at this stage. The sides are a very long way apart, I feel.


(Pascal Lamy - former head of WTO and former EU Trade Commissioner - has on a number of occasions argued that a hard border will be almost impossible to avoid. But he can say this as he is not formally involved in the negotiations - and neither, of course, am I a 'spokesman' for the Remain side! I'm just a humble Remainer who can recognise an impossible situation when he sees one.)
Click to expand...

So we seem to be in some sort of agreement. There won’t be a hard border even in the event of No Deal.

The EU have already said to ROI that there won’t have to be a hard border.

If we fall out on WTO terms, then there is provision for “no infrastructure” on 2 grounds (from what I’ve read and I accept that you say this is open to debate/challenge).
First, if there are political reasons.
Second, if there are negotiations to agree a FTA.

I think there will be some form of agreement to allow one of these 2 options to be adopted.

One other point. Even if EU/UK are in breach of WTO rules, a case needs to be brought to the WTO and these take years to get resolved. By the time it gets to being resolved, there will be some trade agreement. We need to be realistic here. The UK/EU are currently aligned and so much of what is going on is posturing. This may result in a No Deal initial outcome, but that doesn’t mean discussions stop. This will only focus minds in the UK and also in the member states who will be losing out from the lack of a trade deal with the UK.

Too much is read into the public statements coming from both sides and I’m sure lots more is going on behind the scene than is made public. But I honestly don’t fear No Deal - yes, there will be disruption, but companies/governments adapt fast when necessary. We are still the worlds 5th largest economy, so if the EU wanted a trade deal with Canda, then they will want one with us.
 






D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Good stuff. But looking at the final sentence below, I wonder if it will be as easy to target the Japanese market when we contract out of the EU trade agreement with the Japanese?

Gtech has reportedly sold more than 25 million domestic appliances in 18 countries to date and is now looking to further its international success – with Japan mooted as the company’s potential next focus.
Click to expand...

He said he wants to manufacture in the UK, that's all that matters doesn't it?.
 


Two Professors

Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
daveinprague said:
I think they will reject it in favour of a spectacular deal with the UK that could involve Unicorns for everybody
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Think you will find the rejection involving the slaughter of whales,rather than unicorns,while there are still some left.
 








D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
daveinprague said:
Oh you are still here... you said the other day that Czech Republic had a 'massive immigration problem'
Was hoping to hear more about it from you.
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It was a joke because they don't have hardly any immigration at all. Good for them.
 


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