[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I see that 'British in Europe' the group representing Brits who are making their lives in the EU are joining in the call for a People's Vote on Brexit. Even more overlooked are the folk of Gibraltar who voted 96% for Remain. I can't claim to be an expert but I'm surprised that this issue hardly gets a mention. I suspect that had it been the other way round and that Gib had voted out, the popular press would have been full of the brave little island's contribution to the war effort etc.

 

[nicko31]

I see that 'British in Europe' the group representing Brits who are making their lives in the EU are joining in the call for a People's Vote on Brexit. Even more overlooked are the folk of Gibraltar who voted 96% for Remain. I can't claim to be an expert but I'm surprised that this issue hardly gets a mention. I suspect that had it been the other way round and that Gib had voted out, the popular press would have been full of the brave little island's contribution to the war effort etc.

Basically if you are not the 52% minus pensioner deaths, you are hung out to dry

ITS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE

 

[Rodney Thomas]

I see that 'British in Europe' the group representing Brits who are making their lives in the EU are joining in the call for a People's Vote on Brexit. Even more overlooked are the folk of Gibraltar who voted 96% for Remain. I can't claim to be an expert but I'm surprised that this issue hardly gets a mention. I suspect that had it been the other way round and that Gib had voted out, the popular press would have been full of the brave little island's contribution to the war effort etc.

On this point I have a personal question: if there is no deal what are the chances of me being sent back from the EU country I reside in?

Granted I should have kept up to date with developments on this particular issue but 1. everything seems to have gone quite on this and 2. I've been laying off the Brexit news for self preservation purposes.

 

[Two Professors]

With respect, the whole tenor of your post was that calamity at the docks would be 'their problem'.

It would not be illegal to declare EU goods tariff free as long as you treated other countries' goods likewise. Minford and presumably one or two other Brexit economists are in favour of that of course. One thing's for sure - if we are going to retain the wonderfully frictionless trade we have now then SOMEONE'S position is going to have to change massively.

I can't dispute your statement that the euro is about to hit the rocks because I'm no currency expert although I suppose we can note that the government has apparently been piling into euros and now holds more of them than of dollars. That hints at a different view.

I was just trying to counterbalance the constant M2,M20,M27 car park merchants on here who have been whining about chaos at our ports the last few months.They really don't seem to know what bi-lateral anything means.As for the Treasury putting money into the Euro,given their utter uselessness the last 50 years,it's about par for the course.The ERM and joining the Euro spring to mind.I suppose they got a good rate and didn't think to ask why,more failed economists.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

On this point I have a personal question: if there is no deal what are the chances of me being sent back from the EU country I reside in?

Granted I should have kept up to date with developments on this particular issue but 1. everything seems to have gone quite on this and 2. I've been laying off the Brexit news for self preservation purposes.

I think anyone venturing to give you advice might need to know a bit more about your situation which is a bit confusing as you appear to live in Manchester anyway?


The link below is to the British in Europe website and they would have info and guidance relevant to you, perhaps.



https://britishineurope.org/

 

[nicko31]

On this point I have a personal question: if there is no deal what are the chances of me being sent back from the EU country I reside in?

Granted I should have kept up to date with developments on this particular issue but 1. everything seems to have gone quite on this and 2. I've been laying off the Brexit news for self preservation purposes.

I feel for you, I think you need to address that question to the Prime Minister.

Apparently no deal is still better than a bad deal?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I feel for you, I think you need to address that question to the Prime Minister.

Apparently no deal is still better than a bad deal?

Is no deal better than a slightly bad deal, a moderately bad deal, a very bad deal or just a cataclysmically bad deal ?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Ha ha - indeed, wouldn't want us Poly riff raff mixing with the academic geeks at Uni would we

I think the correct terms for these institutions is the 'post 1992 universities'. Should anyone on their campuses be heard to utter the word 'Poly' they would be escorted off the premises.....

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Is no deal better than a slightly bad deal, a moderately bad deal, a very bad deal or just a cataclysmically bad deal ?

No deal is clearly better than a bad deal of any calibration. Please pay attention at the back. And nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. (I've been revising for my exams on Brexit, and soon will be a fully qualified Brexiteer. I think my answers cover the whole syllabus.)

 

[WATFORD zero]

I eventually got a response from my mate at DexEU after I sent him pastafarian's quote

In fairness here, i have read from a number of articles,(no i cant remember which ones) that there are numerous civil servants on both sides hammering out the minutia of specific areas and articles on a daily basis behind the scenes. We the people get to see what has been negotiated for weeks maybe months when the politicians have a weekly summit and it comes into the public eye.

His response 'WTF ? Stupid ****' (he obviously called upon the diplomatic skills that he honed during his time at the Foreign Office for that response )

If your supposed DexEU contact offers you any confidential information,then I hope they get sacked for gross misconduct.

Now I'm not sure whether revealing pastafarian is a stupid **** is considered confidential information, but my guess is his job is safe for the minute.

Im looking forward to your "contact" confirming numerous civil servants are NOT working behind the scenes on a daily basis. Dont forget to share after the weekend with the class your findings and dont forget to ask how many days a week they are working on the ins and outs of the negotiations, or how many days a month if you are right?

what about your so-called meeting with the DexEU?More fabrication,I suppose.

Well that was long winded wasn't it, but with your help constantly chasing me up, I managed to get the response that you were both so concerned about in the end - Hope it was worth it

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

'Now I'm not sure whether revealing pastafarian is a stupid **** is considered confidential information, but my guess is his job is safe for the minute.'


He deserves nothing less than a knighthood.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well one way to get free University Education is to apply to a University in one of our EU partners countries that offer free University education for EU citizens, or get it for less at one of the many others that subsidise the education. Likely not to be an option soon though.

Indeed.

The elder of my two boys is two years into a three year degree course, at a high ranked, red-brick university, in an EU country. It is costing him €3k/yr instead of £9k/yr for the fees. En-suite student accommodation for all three years at less than the cost of room in a shared house in many UK cities. Direct flights home to Southampton airport at about £80 return.

He's having a brilliant time, getting excellent grades, and its all working out really well. I find it amazing that so few of our students have the initiative to take advantage of the opportunity.

And very sad that his younger brother, just about to start second year of A-levels, will almost certainly be denied that opportunity.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I have asked this before and never got an answer (surprise surprise): why would a bad deal be worse than no deal? Why would the EU offer somthing they KNOW is worse than us taking no deal? That makes no sense, even their worst offer will be better than no deal. Otherwise why bother offering a deal?

I suppose that the deal they might offer that is worse for us than no deal might be for us might be better for them than no deal might be for them.

That's the ugliest sentence I have ever written. Perhaps you should get the advice of a Brexiteer. They are better than us at assessing the relative virtues of potential disasters and calamities.

 

[seagulls4ever]

I already have provided figures - to do what you want will need an extra 4p on income tax for EVERYONE. Now I will ask you AGAIN - how EXACTLY would you fund this ? And I mean with FIGURES ?

He wants Uni to be free - no fees. I asked him how he would fund it - the answer was simply 'taxes'. I've pointed out that would cost 4p on the basic rate of income tax. Given that would hit the least well off the worst I asked him to provide some figures on how he would fund it. So far the answer is usual claptrap sound bites - he doesn't live in the real world. I'm still awaiting his 'rising up to protect his fellow EU citizens against Brexit'.

Even ignoring that there are other ways to fund university tuition, and any indirect benefits which may occur, you are wrong in what additional funds would be required. Even after I pointed out your inaccuracies, you continue to mention the inaccurate figures:

Ah, the magic taxpayer's money tree. So it costs around £33bn to run universities ( that doesn't include tech colleges etc ). Taxpayers already pay about £8.5bn of that bill. Uni students pay £14.6bn of the bill in fees. To replace that £14.6bn you would have to increase income tax - for ALL rates - by ~4p. Would you be happy to pay that increase ? After all the people it would hit the most would be the poorest taxpayers. How EXACTLY would YOU fund this idea ?

I can't be arsed to get into the tuition fee discussion, or the implications of it, but I will point out that this post is a load of bullshit.

First, it's worth noting that the government still funds university education - they've just implemented a scheme where they increased tuition fees (and scrapped maintenance grants), and made students fund these increases by an increasing their loans. But they still pay the upfront costs, but they've just rigged the system so that the deficit appears less than it is because student loans do not count as part of the deficit, even though it's money the government has paid out. Scraping fees and bringing back the maintenance grant would therefore technically increase the deficit, but the upfront fees paid by the government would increase only by £1 billion (because of self-funders getting free education). But because of how the repayments actually work out, it was estimated at the time of the last GE it would cost £8 billion per year. Still a significant wedge, no doubt, but quite a different take compared to how you presented it.

Where did you get your figures from? They look out of date anyway.

I agree with your point about the government providing the funding and then getting it back via student loans - it still means students pay though.

I'll admit the figures are a bit old but I doubt they've changed particularly from a percentage perspective.

Here you go - from www.universitiesuk.ac.uk :

View attachment 99698

The point is that your entire post based on so-called figures was inaccurate. £14.6 billion is not the number that would need to be raised each year.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Indeed.

The elder of my two boys is two years into a three year degree course, at a high ranked, red-brick university, in an EU country. It is costing him €3k/yr instead of £9k/yr for the fees. En-suite student accommodation for all three years at less than the cost of room in a shared house in many UK cities. Direct flights home to Southampton airport at about £80 return.

He's having a brilliant time, getting excellent grades, and its all working out really well. I find it amazing that so few of our students have the initiative to take advantage of the opportunity.

And very sad that his younger brother, just about to start second year of A-levels, will almost certainly be denied that opportunity.

This gets to the heart of my sadness about Brexit. The fact that it will cost a fortune to achieve this decline in opportunity for our young people just makes it worse.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I suppose that the deal they might offer that is worse for us than no deal might be for us might be better for them than no deal might be for them.

That's the ugliest sentence I have ever written. Perhaps you should get the advice of a Brexiteer. They are better than us at assessing the relative virtues of potential disasters and calamities.

I know what you mean but, as I understand it, because both Britain and the EU are members of WTO, the EU cannot legally offer Britain a worse deal than that defined by the WTO. Therefore a bad deal cannot logically (or legally) be worse than no deal.

It appears that some Brexiteers may have been less than completely honest

 

[Two Professors]

I know what you mean but, as I understand it, because both Britain and the EU are members of WTO, the EU cannot legally offer Britain a worse deal than that defined by the WTO. Therefore a bad deal cannot logically (or legally) be worse than no deal.

It appears that some Brexiteers may have been less than completely honest

You can be very obtuse at times.A deal where we are still at the beck and call of the ECJ and the EU Commission is politically worse.You seem to have conveniently forgotten that option.It has been raised before.

 

[portslade seagull]

Lowest unemployment since the early 70s, something to be happy about

 

[Hampster Gull]

Indeed.

The elder of my two boys is two years into a three year degree course, at a high ranked, red-brick university, in an EU country. It is costing him €3k/yr instead of £9k/yr for the fees. En-suite student accommodation for all three years at less than the cost of room in a shared house in many UK cities. Direct flights home to Southampton airport at about £80 return.

He's having a brilliant time, getting excellent grades, and its all working out really well. I find it amazing that so few of our students have the initiative to take advantage of the opportunity.

And very sad that his younger brother, just about to start second year of A-levels, will almost certainly be denied that opportunity.

Thx and another example of why a significant proportion of the youth of this great country voted remain. Let down by those who, well, whatever

 

[Si Gull]

Lowest unemployment since the early 70s, something to be happy about

Unless you're on a zero hours contract or your employment constitutes a 'mc job'. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. ....