[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

It is not free, there are university fees! How do you not realise that!?
Fine pay private tutors but don't segregate rich kids from poor when at school. They should all have the same basic resources available to them. There may not be such a divide if rich and poor families interacted on a level playing field more often.

Quite clearly you've had no experience or interaction with the private education sector. Most kids come from middle income families. Many of the families sacrfice something else to pay for it - normally holidays. One of the kids at my children's school was from a single parent family and the Mum used to work a second job at Asda in the evenings to pay the fees. Private education isn't just used by 'rich' kids.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

All education should be improved to the same excellent level, I agree. But no child should have access to a better school as their parents are rich.

Putting aside your hatred of the 'rich' - you know parents using the state education system move home just to be in a particular catchment area don't you ? Because they can afford to do so.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I don't run away. I voted leave and that's what I want.

Plooks ran away and now he's suggesting we change our eduction system he won't use

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You don't think it is punishing kids who can achieve great thing by giving them a lower standard of education than they deserve!?
To fund it: ask the schools how much they need then raise taxes to provide that much.

You really can't answer the question can you ? WITH ACTUAL FIGURES !!!!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I never said I hate the rich. I just dispise the inequality forced on children because of it. If schools were all funded correctly there would be no need to move catchment areas.
Yes, yes...fantasy...blah blah lets not bother as it will be hard to achieve...blah blah...excuses...blah blah...

Cleay you do because you keep mentioning 'the rich'. Yet private education is mainly used by middle income families ( £40k - £60k ).

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Blah blah...I bet you can't either.

I already have provided figures - to do what you want will need an extra 4p on income tax for EVERYONE. Now I will ask you AGAIN - how EXACTLY would you fund this ? And I mean with FIGURES ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well you answered it. All I was suggesting was distributing the flat 4p a bit more fairly.

And your maths doesn't add up - doing what you suggested doesn't produce enough money. So come on, some figures ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And your maths doesn't add up - doing what you suggested doesn't produce enough money. So come on, some figures ?

I can’t be arsed to trawl through this thread, what are you asking him to provide sums for?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I can’t be arsed to trawl through this thread, what are you asking him to provide sums for?

He wants Uni to be free - no fees. I asked him how he would fund it - the answer was simply 'taxes'. I've pointed out that would cost 4p on the basic rate of income tax. Given that would hit the least well off the worst I asked him to provide some figures on how he would fund it. So far the answer is usual claptrap sound bites - he doesn't live in the real world. I'm still awaiting his 'rising up to protect his fellow EU citizens against Brexit'.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He wants Uni to be free - no fees. I asked him how he would fund it - the answer was simply 'taxes'. I've pointed out that would cost 4p on the basic rate of income tax. Given that would hit the least well off the worst I asked him to provide some figures on how he would fund it. So far the answer is usual claptrap sound bites - he doesn't live in the real world. I'm still awaiting his 'rising up to protect his fellow EU citizens against Brexit'.

I’m the same, everyone should have one free shot at getting as far as they can with their education/training. In this sense university education should be free. I, and possibly you, got free university education so it seems a bit shit for us to then deny future generations. And the country would surely benefit.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You've come back.

So which do you want? TM's negotiated solution or WTO 'no deal'

or are you going to run away and not answer again?

what you want and what you get are two different things, bit like the referendum result SLEEP EASY ON THAT ONE
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I will accept the fact you have no idea. Cheers

No problem Dave , another day another start, life goes on , don't have nightmares "we're on our way"
regards
DR

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I’m the same, everyone should have one free shot at getting as far as they can with their education/training. In this sense university education should be free. I, and possibly you, got free university education so it seems a bit shit for us to then deny future generations. And the country would surely benefit.

I don't disagree - the principle of it being free is a sound one. The reality of delivering it is something else entirely. That's the bit I asked him about ..... as yet no solid answer. Yes I got it free ( well Poly rather than Uni ) and a grant but things have changed - the number going for a start. The problem is that Plooks has blamed his own shortcomings on a number of groups so far - the old, the rich, private schools, home owners to name a few. He's a very bitter person who never actually answers a question.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't disagree - the principle of it being free is a sound one. The reality of delivering it is something else entirely. That's the bit I asked him about ..... as yet no solid answer. Yes I got it free ( well Poly rather than Uni ) and a grant but things have changed - the number going for a start. The problem is that Plooks has blamed his own shortcomings on a number of groups so far - the old, the rich, private schools, home owners to name a few. He's a very bitter person who never actually answers a question.

And I disagreed with the merging of polys and universities as means I have to now have to find other ways to look down on people

 

[Baldseagull]

I don't disagree - the principle of it being free is a sound one. The reality of delivering it is something else entirely. That's the bit I asked him about ..... as yet no solid answer. Yes I got it free ( well Poly rather than Uni ) and a grant but things have changed - the number going for a start. The problem is that Plooks has blamed his own shortcomings on a number of groups so far - the old, the rich, private schools, home owners to name a few. He's a very bitter person who never actually answers a question.

Well one way to get free University Education is to apply to a University in one of our EU partners countries that offer free University education for EU citizens, or get it for less at one of the many others that subsidise the education. Likely not to be an option soon though. Even in Scotland, if you have exercised your rights under freedom of movement and are a Brit living elsewhere in the EU, you can get it for free, just not if you live in England, Wales or N.I., you know, the countries whose taxes actually in part fund those Universities.
We can do it, we decided to spend the money on Trident instead, because old nukes just aren't scary enough.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Well one way to get free University Education is to apply to a University in one of our EU partners countries that offer free University education for EU citizens, or get it for less at one of the many others that subsidise the education. Likely not to be an option soon though. Even in Scotland, if you have exercised your rights under freedom of movement and are a Brit living elsewhere in the EU, you can get it for free, just not if you live in England, Wales or N.I., you know, the countries whose taxes actually in part fund those Universities.
We can do it, we decided to spend the money on Trident instead, because old nukes just aren't scary enough.

Many other countries do it, so I’ve never understood why the U.K. can’t.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And I disagreed with the merging of polys and universities as means I have to now have to find other ways to look down on people

Ha ha - indeed, wouldn't want us Poly riff raff mixing with the academic geeks at Uni would we

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well one way to get free University Education is to apply to a University in one of our EU partners countries that offer free University education for EU citizens, or get it for less at one of the many others that subsidise the education. Likely not to be an option soon though. Even in Scotland, if you have exercised your rights under freedom of movement and are a Brit living elsewhere in the EU, you can get it for free, just not if you live in England, Wales or N.I., you know, the countries whose taxes actually in part fund those Universities.
We can do it, we decided to spend the money on Trident instead, because old nukes just aren't scary enough.

Trident is just a stupid willy waving competition ..... agree with you the money should be spent elsewhere.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I can't be arsed to get into the tuition fee discussion, or the implications of it, but I will point out that this post is a load of bullshit.

First, it's worth noting that the government still funds university education - they've just implemented a scheme where they increased tuition fees (and scrapped maintenance grants), and made students fund these increases by an increasing their loans. But they still pay the upfront costs, but they've just rigged the system so that the deficit appears less than it is because student loans do not count as part of the deficit, even though it's money the government has paid out. Scraping fees and bringing back the maintenance grant would therefore technically increase the deficit, but the upfront fees paid by the government would increase only by £1 billion (because of self-funders getting free education). But because of how the repayments actually work out, it was estimated at the time of the last GE it would cost £8 billion per year. Still a significant wedge, no doubt, but quite a different take compared to how you presented it.

Where did you get your figures from? They look out of date anyway.

I agree with your point about the government providing the funding and then getting it back via student loans - it still means students pay though.

I'll admit the figures are a bit old but I doubt they've changed particularly from a percentage perspective.

Here you go - from www.universitiesuk.ac.uk :

 

[daveinprague]

No problem Dave , another day another start, life goes on , don't have nightmares "we're on our way"
regards
DR

I wont have any nightmares. If there is a 'no deal', I will certainly stay in Europe. Shame you dont have the wit or intelligence to explain how 'life will go on'. The fact that you and other nitwits are unable to provide any sort of explanation speaks volumes.
ie: You are a bit stupid.