[Politics] Brexit

[seagulls4ever]

Yes you have. How can something be "freedom" when, as you rightly, pointed out it restricts movement. That is LESS freedom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLCEUpIg8rE

 

[Creaky]

Did I touch a nerve? I do not want free movement just controlled movement.

So what is the justification for controlling the movement of people?

Again I can think of many economic reasons but very few, if any, moral ones.

 

[The Rivet]

Yes you have. How can something be "freedom" when, as you rightly, pointed out it restricts movement. That is LESS freedom.

Plooks I stated my choice on borders. Have you? You want complete open borders? Freedom from Brexit is in sovereign decisions for our country. You rape, money launder, traffic women perhaps deal heroin, convicted killer maybe? No Entry. You want checks or total open borders? Answer the question. Am I talking to rabid minority lefties?

 

[The Rivet]

So what is the justification for controlling the movement of people?

Again I can think of many economic reasons but very few, if any, moral ones.

I really cannot think of any reason why I would want to converse with such a poor question.

 

[Triggaaar]

 

[pb21]

Again, that's not how democracy works.

It would be like a football match where one side needs to win by 3 goals to get the victory.

Democracy ≠ Football

It would be nothing of the sort.

 

[Triggaaar]

So what is the justification for controlling the movement of people?

Again I can think of many economic reasons but very few, if any, moral ones.

If you immediately removed all borders from every country in the world, it would be a shit-storm. I don't think that would be morally fair on the societies that have built a culture of peace and prosperity.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A majority is not a dissenting vote, it is the popular vote. It would be the minority vote that is the dissenting vote, so therefore surely if there were such a handicap in a second referendum, it should be against the remainers? So, as an example, 65% majority required to revoke the EU leaving decision. Would you agree with that?

I don't think you understand the meaning of a black ball. It is a dissenting voice that wins the day in a system designed to resist momentous change. I would indeed agree that 65% (at least) would be appropriate to revoke the Brexit decision - but ONLY if the vote were held after we have Brexitted. We haven't left yet. And the reason we are having these discussions is because 'we' cannot work out how to procure a deal. Thus I am saying: rerun the vote so that we don't have to stumble into a no deal Brexit - something that only a tiny minority of lunatics advocate. I am not saying, actually that a rerun now should have a 60:40 pass bar. I am saying that is what we should have done first time round. It would be unfair to rerun the same vote with different rules, so rerun it now with a simple majority arrangement. I suspect the majority in favour of remain would actually be massive (regardless of whether this is due to change of views among the electorate or sulkng/boycotting by petulant Brexitters).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes you have. How can something be "freedom" when, as you rightly, pointed out it restricts movement. That is LESS freedom.

You have just reminded me why I have the two inch nail on ignore.

 

[Creaky]

If you immediately removed all borders from every country in the world, it would be a shit-storm. I don't think that would be morally fair on the societies that have built a culture of peace and prosperity.

Certainly if you removed all borders there would be horrendous economic consequences for those that ‘have’. Would that make such an action ‘immoral’?

 

[Creaky]

I really cannot think of any reason why I would want to converse with such a poor question.

Sounds like you can’t think of any moral reasons against removing border controls.

 

[Triggaaar]

Certainly if you removed all borders there would be horrendous economic consequences for those that ‘have’. Would that make such an action ‘immoral’?

Yes. And it wouldn't just have economic consequences, crime would be uncontrollable. Everywhere would be like Croydon.

Ideally, the future will see us increase the wealth and health of the poor around the world. Simply having a free-for-all fight so that no one has anything would not be a great future for humanity.

 

[Questions]

Do I have to pretend I understand Brexit to qualify for a vote?

Certainly not. Look at all the bozos who voted out last time.

 

[The Rivet]

Sounds like you can’t think of any moral reasons against removing border controls.

Do bugger off old chap.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Freedom from the burdensome control of the EU. Freedom to trade around the world on our terms.

Freedom. Yes, freedom. The sort of freedom I believe in is encapsulated in the first 2 minutes of this song. I suspect others on here are more inclined to the sorts of freedom discussed from 2 minutes 50 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auN0ZLcuvXI

 

[bWize]

The whole thing is a mess!

We should have been given all the facts well before the vote. It's the reason I felt I couldn't vote as the details were so vague. I believe in a strong Europe and good relations with our neighbours, but I also think the current EU setup is full of gravy trainers and too much bureaucracy.

My Dad believes their should be a second referendum (he is a staunch remainer) but when I asked him if he thought there should be a 2nd referendum had "remain" won he said "NO" - To me that is the exact opposite of democracy.

Far too much moving of the goalposts and to be honest the whole think is a shit fest and makes us look a laughing stock!

 

[Creaky]

Yes. Ideally, the future would be to increase the wealth and health of the poor around the world. Simply having a free-for-all fight so that no one has anything would not be a great future for humanity.

Let me make my personal view clear - I do not want to see worldwide open borders - if I’m honest though when examining my motives for this point of view I can only come up with economic ones.

 

[Creaky]

Do bugger off old chap.

That’s the answer to that one then

 

[larus]

The whole thing is a mess!

We should have been given all the facts well before the vote. It's the reason I felt I couldn't vote as the details were so vague. I believe in a strong Europe and good relations with our neighbours, but I also think the current EU setup is full of gravy trainers and too much bureaucracy.

My Dad believes their should be a second referendum (he is a staunch remainer) but when I asked him he thought there should be a 2nd referendum if vote remain had won he said "NO"

Far too much moving of the goalposts and to be honest the whole think is a shit fest and makes us look a laughing stock!

And there, in one simple statement, is where we have the hypocrisy of the Remain side.

Democracy only works if the plebs vote the right way. Yeah - right.

 

[Triggaaar]

Let me make my personal view clear - I do not want to see worldwide open borders - if I’m honest though when examining my motives for this point of view I can only come up with economic ones.

But you know that if all borders were open worldwide, that crime would be uncontrollable right? That's not just an economic motive.

Just to make my personal view clear, I'm not anti-immigration, although ideally I'd like the governments we vote in to be able to control it.