[Politics] Brexit

[Brian Fantana]

Ask them, of ALL parties. They voted overwhelmingly to hand it to a general plebiscite.

Posioned challice, innit.They knew that when it all inevitably went wrong, they could turn around and say 'well, you all voted for this. It's not our fault.'

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I voted leave on the basis that it didn’t look like we were going to be able to influence change from within. I was particularly unhappy having a central government and court having so much influence on our country. When we joined, we joined the Common Market and don’t believe we had enough say in how that was allowed to develop into what it is today, and what they want it to be in the future. What I didn’t know at the time of the latest referendum was just how complex and costly the exercise was going to be.
In hindsight I think it would have been better to try harder at influencing change from within. There appears to be a shift change in some of its members - the French and Italians I think would be bendable.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

The irony for me, who reluctantly voted leave, was the reason I did it was the absolute horse shit spouted by remain - security being one example - plus the "I'm considerably more intelligent than you" attitude by some of the remainders. It's clear to me that we are paving the way for another referendum based on leave being like Qatar in the World Cup bidding when both sides were clueless and lying through their teeth. The debate, on both sides, was pathetic and Cameron has a lot to answer for with his X factor popularity vote in the 1st place.

That all said, whilst Brexit is here the country is going nowhere mired in an endless debate led by people who are either pretending to lead Brexit but never wanted it or wanted it in the 1st place but could never admit to it. I'd be severely tempted to change as there it's clear now we have no short term route out and no vision of what Britain is when we leave other than 'Brexit means Brexit'

Politics is broken at the minute.

It certainly is.
I voted remain mostly because I thought our politicians are just not capable of handling Brexit and will not do the right thing for the country.
You hated the reman campaign, I cringed at it, but no way was I going to believe a word that came out of the clown Johnson's mouth and refuse to have anything to do with Farage, I'm shocked so many did and fell for it.

 

[lawros left foot]

What you fail to realise is the NHS is on its knees now. Living where we live a trip to A and E is a nightmare, the vast majority in there are immigrants who cannot get a GP appoinyment for a variety of reasons. Schools, all we hear is that immigrant children are thriving and ours are not, maybe there's a link there or I suppose we have all become bad parents. Jobs have gone downhill fast as they are now competing with millions of cheap labour. House prices artificially high and rents likewise, inflated by the need for immigrants to have accommodation and foreign money. Now I realise this maybe a very simplistic view but if you could convince me otherwise I would be open to hearing it.
Now I realise if you live in a nice area and have a good job then why would you want to change the status quo, maybe living in Sussex/Hampshire you do not see this but it's very real and happening.
Now people affected by this and those not as affected but wanting to change this were told we have the right to vote, which we did. But now the goalposts keep moving.
I personally feel that those that voted Brexit and may get sold out will become very angry and good luck when that happens.

I quite agree with you about May has indeed been handed the shittiest stick since Winny (although Winny triumphed in the end, didn't he?) - but I find it perverse that you cannot accept that the blame for our difficulties lies fair and square with the majority of politicians at Westminster (the remain supporters) who have spent the last two years, by fair means and foul, to hamper and hinder Mrs. May and the Brexit process every step of the way.
Leave voting politicians are mostly on the outside looking in as far as the negotiations are concerned, so can hardly be blamed for the difficulties. Perhaps they could do a better job (and maybe they'd like to). They certainly could (and so probably could TM) if the Westminster remainers took the same reasonable stance as you and - albeit reluctantly - accepted the referendum result and stopped endlessly trying to hamstring our negotiations.

Brexit Minister David Davis Leaver
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson Leaver
Environment Minister Michael Gove Leaver
Secretary of State for International Trade Liam Fox Leaver
Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom Leaver
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson Leaver


Hardly on the outside looking in, just have and had no idea how to implement any kind of Brexit, let alone one that could actually be beneficial to our country.

Muppets.

 

[larus]

What's the point of electing MPs to represent us, and paying them to understand, debate and legislate on the important and complex issues which impact on our daily lives, but then shipping out a decision to the electorate which has so much detail involved in it, and which carries such significance for all of us?

Yeah, they’re all so frigging intelligent - like Diane Abbott.

As [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] states, if the electorate are intelligent enough to elect the politicians on multiple policies, then surely the electorate are intelligent enough to choose in a yes/no vote.

Also, I see that you favour a 60/40 vote. No doubt the 60% would be needed to leave, but only 40% to remain. Wow, more democratic evidence of the remain voters.

If you want to live somewhere where you don’t elect you leaders (the real leaders who make most of the rules), the go and live in the EU after Brexit. The presidents aren’t elected by the people nor are the commissioners. Only the MEPs, and the real power lies in the Presidents/Commissioners.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Yeah, they’re all so frigging intelligent - like Diane Abbott.

As [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] states, if the electorate are intelligent enough to elect the politicians on multiple policies, then surely the electorate are intelligent enough to choose in a yes/no vote.

Also, I see that you favour a 60/40 vote. No doubt the 60% would be needed to leave, but only 40% to remain. Wow, more democratic evidence of the remain voters.

If you want to live somewhere where you don’t elect you leaders (the real leaders who make most of the rules), the go and live in the EU after Brexit. The presidents aren’t elected by the people nor are the commissioners. Only the MEPs, and the real power lies in the Presidents/Commissioners.

Errr, I said a bigger majority should be required for either decision. That way, you stand a better chance of avoiding the situation that we’re in now.

As for your last point, I am going to be doing so.

 

[larus]

All of those crimes should result in a conviction so I am not sure why they would be an issue at a border unless they person is on the run?
As for my view: freedom of movement is a good thing and the more open we can make borders the better. And before you claim I am all for all sorts of criminals flooding in, that is not what I said. There is nothing wrong with checking of people are wanted for a crime at borders.

You must be an idealist teen/early twenties.

If we had open borders, what do you really think the effect would be in the west with huge immigration from Africa/SE Asia?

 

[larus]

Errr, I said a bigger majority should be required for either decision. That way, you stand a better chance of avoiding the situation that we’re in now.

As for your last point, I am going to be doing so.

So what you mean is that the Remain voters are more important (as it would need a 3 to 2 vote to get leave). So a remain vote is worth 50% more than a leave vote.

Nice and democratic. Some are more equal than others.

 

[larus]

We need to help those nations improve economically and standard of living wise first to prevent mass migration. There is no such problem between similarly developed nations though.

And what happens to the money we use to try and do that? Most of it is lost in corruption to their ‘governments’.

Idealism always fails in the face of reality.

 

[larus]

Nawwwww. Scared you will lose snowflake?

Not at all. But I assume you’d support another referendum in say 18 months time if the polls show that people change their mind again!

 

[astralavi]

Let's make this happen
https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal

 

[Creaky]

Because there is a lot of poverty in a lot of countries, and people would flock to the chance of a better life. Imagine the Mexicans headed for the US, and the Africans and people from the Middle-East headed for Europe etc. With the many millions who just want the chance to work, will be millions who just want to take what they can get.

Not sure I can see your logic with this - why would someone who is honest in one country become dishonest in another. Certainly the value of the crime may differ but is £100 taken from someone in the West a bigger crime than £1 taken from someone in a third world country?

Crime would certainly move with the change in population, as would the demand on education, health, jobs etc. But increased demand on infrastructure in one place is balanced by decreased demand in another, increased crime balanced by decreased crime.

In societal terms border controls are beneficial, in individual terms they are a restriction of freedoms.

 

[GT49er]

Brexit Minister David Davis Leaver
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson Leaver
Environment Minister Michael Gove Leaver
Secretary of State for International Trade Liam Fox Leaver
Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom Leaver
Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson Leaver


Hardly on the outside looking in, just have and had no idea how to implement any kind of Brexit, let alone one that could actually be beneficial to our country.

Muppets.

Davis isn't the Brexit Minister, and Johnson isn't the Foreign Secretary.

They resigned because they believed they had a better way of running Brexit; they were probably right too

I know it must be hard to recognise facts that undermine your argument, but do at least try to keep up.....................................

 

[Questions]

Sorry but I disagree. The facts were deliberately obfuscated from the start. Also, if the facts were there from the start why the need for a 2nd referendum?

I’m not saying there should be a second referendum. The facts might have appeared obfuscated - well done - to some, but they appeared crystal clear to me. I was on the losing side but that doesn’t mean the best decision has been made for this country.

 

[lawros left foot]

Davis isn't the Brexit Minister, and Johnson isn't the Foreign Secretary.

They resigned because they believed they had a better way of running Brexit; they were probably right too

I know it must be hard to recognise facts that undermine your argument, but do at least try to keep up.....................................

Re-read my post,I said have or HAD no idea how to implement Brexit.
My cat would be able to run Brexit better than the incompetents who are presently ballsing it up, but, there again, my cat is probably too intelligent to take us out of one of the biggest trading blocks in the World with no feasible plan.And he certainly wouldn't have voted for it.
I won't add any sarky comments about keeping up, you can obviously only concentrate on one thing at a time, so distracting you wouldn't really be fair.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What a defeatist attitude. Also, answer me this: why is it ok for people who live under corrupt governments to suffer? But under your ideals we just leave them.

Hey, another post from a cock I've blocked (not you [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION], your assailant). Apologies if fixtures. It is hard to keep up, what with the diarrhetic deluge of posts these fit kippers keep posting....keep doing your Brexit pressups, boys

 

[GT49er]

Re-read my post,I said have or HAD no idea how to implement Brexit.
My cat would be able to run Brexit better than the incompetents who are presently ballsing it up, but, there again, my cat is probably too intelligent to take us out of one of the biggest trading blocks in the World with no feasible plan.And he certainly wouldn't have voted for it.
I won't add any sarky comments about keeping up, you can obviously only concentrate on one thing at a time, so distracting you wouldn't really be fair.

Ah yes, you knew Boris and Davis hadn't got a clue because you knew what they're thoughts were. Amazing that you have the ability to know what was in their minds, what ideas they had. Yes, yes, we understand that all remoaners know what people who voted or promoted Brexit were thinking. #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea.
Now you reveal that some remoaners even imagine they know how their cats would vote if they had a vote! Wowee! Delusional - but do carry on. It's good to have a laugh.
Oh, and you really don't have anything like enough going for you to distract me, but dream on. That won't bother me, even though you did actually add some sarky comments after saying you wouldn't. True EU disciple, you!

 

[Triggaaar]

Not sure I can see your logic with this - why would someone who is honest in one country become dishonest in another.

I didn't say they would. Millions upon millions of people would travel, in the hope of a better life. As well as those, will be millions of dishonest people, looking to take advantage of opportunities that arise. And as the systems fail to cope with the vast numbers of people travelling, opportunities would arise, and dishonest people would take advantage of them. Meanwhile, because so many came for a better life, many will find that they can't earn money, and they'll struggle to get food or shelter without also resorting to crime.

 

[trueblue]

So keep wanting another throw of the dice until you get what you want is not infantile?
Pro remainers seem to think there will be another vote, they will win and that will be the end of that. Not so long ago we had severe riots because some scumbag drug dealer was killed by police which in turn led another load of scumbags to go and get their shopping for free. The unrest another vote would cause would be many times worse, it won't just be scumbags either.

Remainers didn’t riot after the 2016 result. Why should Leavers riot if that result is democratically overturned because some people have changed their minds in light of new information (like no prospect of there ever being the promised windfall for the NHS)?

Rioting would be a pretty thick response from people we’re constantly being told are intelligent and know what’s best for the country.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

[tweet]1023567403974840325[/tweet]

By a remarkable coincidence I also tuned into this almost by accident and just for the few minutes of this caller. He was totally dumbfounded by the points she makes and literally had no answers. Thanks for posting.