[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

Davis isn't the Brexit Minister, and Johnson isn't the Foreign Secretary.

They resigned because they believed they had a better way of running Brexit; they were probably right too

I know it must be hard to recognise facts that undermine your argument, but do at least try to keep up.....................................

You really believe they resigned because their way was better? I can't believe you are that naive.

 

[lawros left foot]

Ah yes, you knew Boris and Davis hadn't got a clue because you knew what they're thoughts were. Amazing that you have the ability to know what was in their minds, what ideas they had. Yes, yes, we understand that all remoaners know what people who voted or promoted Brexit were thinking. #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea.
Now you reveal that some remoaners even imagine they know how their cats would vote if they had a vote! Wowee! Delusional - but do carry on. It's good to have a laugh.
Oh, and you really don't have anything like enough going for you to distract me, but dream on. That won't bother me, even though you did actually add some sarky comments after saying you wouldn't. True EU disciple, you!

What is their plan then?

8 months to go,I really do think its about time the rest of us were let in on it,or, is it as we remoaners think, therebis no plan, and never has been a plan , and theres no plan on the horizon anytime soon.

But, if course you prefer to put the blame for this monumental ,( with stress on the mental) cluster**** on those who never believed that this retreat from the EU could ever have a good outcome, instead of the incompetents who lied and cheated to win the referendum fill your boots.
Any futurevthat includes stockpiling of medecines and foodstuff, is not going to be a post EU utopia, no matter what the little Englanders tell us.

 

[heathgate]

You’re right, I doubled the deaths twice by accident when accounting for 2 years. I couldn’t find the age stat beyond 65, but I from memory it increases towards 80% for people in their 80s.

If turnout was indeed that high for the 18-24 group and was repeated in a similar vote, then the millions of new voters since 2016 would make a significant impact.

Level of education was the other significant factor in whether you’re more likely to have voted leave/remain, but that’s not going to have changed much in 2 years.

The turnout for 18-24 was approx 34%...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[heathgate]

If there was a second referendum, and it was to stay that wouldn’t mean your vote/s to leave meant nothing; we are in the process of leaving after all.

However I think it is becoming increasingly apparent that there is going to be a cost associated with Brexit and that may have been overlooked/underestimated. IMO It would be foolish to leave solely on the result of the original referendum.

But what if people did indeed think that there was*something about Brexit that was more important that GDP? Why is it impossible to consider that possibility, that some people were indeed prepared to accept a relatively poorer country as a price worth paying for a more independent one? That some things are more important than money?

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[larus]

I’m not saying there should be a second referendum. The facts might have appeared obfuscated - well done - to some, but they appeared crystal clear to me. I was on the losing side but that doesn’t mean the best decision has been made for this country.

It just means that a decision has been made which the majority think is the best decision though. The ‘best decision’ is subjective, and just your opinion.

 

[Notters]

Indeed, most of England voted to leave, it's only really London and the surrounds and Brighton and a few other small pockets that voted to remain. Look at a map of voter results and London and Brighton really are not representative of the rest of the country.

Are Manchester, Leeds and Liverpool small pockets now?

 

[larus]

Just added my first person ever to ignore. That dubious honour goes to the senile, grumpy loser Harry Wilson. No more reading his sanctimonious, pathetic tripe on here.

 

[pb21]

But what if people did indeed think that there was*something about Brexit that was more important that GDP? Why is it impossible to consider that possibility, that some people were indeed prepared to accept a relatively poorer country as a price worth paying for a more independent one? That some things are more important than money?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I'm sure some people would vote for Brexit regardless of the cost. I'm also sure there are some people who voted for Brexit who aren't necessarily happy with the potential cost and implications which are becoming more concrete, rather than supposed project fear.

 

[seagulls4ever]

The turnout for 18-24 was approx 34%...

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Bruter and Harrison say the lower and wrong estimate was based on information released by Sky Data which relied on data compiled after last year’s general election, which looked at the proportion within each generation who said they always vote.

The new, far higher, figures emerged after Opinium conducted post-referendum polling among 2,002 people that asked four questions about how and whether they voted. They asked whether people voted at polling stations or by post, whether they were registered but did not vote, and whether they were not registered at all.

The results found that 64% of those young people (16-24) who were registered did vote, rising to 65% among 25-to-39-year-olds and 66% among those aged between 40 and 54. It increased to 74% among the 55-to-64 age group and 90% for those aged 65 and over. It is thought that more than 70% of young voters chose to remain in the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...eople-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

 

[Chicken Run]

If there were a 2nd Brexit Referendum

Just added my first person ever to ignore. That dubious honour goes to the senile, grumpy loser Harry Wilson. No more reading his sanctimonious, pathetic tripe on here.

It’s quite refreshing actually, he is my only ignore as well and to say I don’t miss his ignorant self-centred nonsense would be an understatement, the good news is I’m on his ignore list so he won’t even see this!

 

[spring hall convert]

Don't you think a huge part of the electorate will find it hard to forgive the party that foist this Referendum upon us, then made a hash of the negotiations? In particular I'm think of younger voters under 30 who will associate Tory government with austerity and incompetence, and won't recall a time when they sorted stuff.

Plenty of voters still rate utter incompetence, over and above god forbid A SOCIALIST.

 

[Simster]

Ah yes, you knew Boris and Davis hadn't got a clue because you knew what they're thoughts were. Amazing that you have the ability to know what was in their minds, what ideas they had. Yes, yes, we understand that all remoaners know what people who voted or promoted Brexit were thinking. #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea.
Now you reveal that some remoaners even imagine they know how their cats would vote if they had a vote! Wowee! Delusional - but do carry on. It's good to have a laugh.
Oh, and you really don't have anything like enough going for you to distract me, but dream on. That won't bother me, even though you did actually add some sarky comments after saying you wouldn't. True EU disciple, you!

One thing that bothers me more than anything else is this idea that anti-Brexit people are somehow responsible for this complete shambles. There is absolutely no reason why any of us remainers shouldn't continue our democratic right to object to it any more than Brexiteers like Farage shouldn't have continued his own fight as he promised had it been 52-48 the other way. [MENTION=19800]lawros left foot[/MENTION] lists a bunch of Brexiteers who had a stake in how Brexit should happen, but have now cowardly backed away from it. I do think it's time these people were held to account by people on their own side i.e. Brexit voters. Stop blaming people like me for this utter clusterfck. Instead, what we've seen is a lack of willing on the part of brexit politicians to resolve the major issues, and the constant fall back of blaming the EU and "remoaners" whenever they don't get their way.

Firstly, the Irish border. A very complicated situation, and in all honesty the only way I can see that working is for NI to remain in the EU. But instead of Brexiteers recognising this obvious fact, all we've heard from them is that it's all the fault of the Irish government or the EU holding us to ransom. It clearly isn't. They haven't changed the status quo - we have. And with this in mind this issue should have been sounded out/thought about well before the 2016 referendum was held.

Secondly, access to the common market. We have spent 40 years building an economy whereby components of high tech products (and services) go back and forth over EU national borders without attracting tariffs. Car plants (for example) in this country simply won't function cost effectively unless we resolve this problem. To elaborate, a car is built in modular steps - headlights constructed in Belgium and shipped here, perhaps with light bubs built in France. Glass windows churned out in Poland and shipped here, that sort of thing. We still have no clue what they are going to do - it is a desperate situation.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think a second referendum of some sort is likely to happen. We've had gutless leadership from pro-remain Theresa May and even worse from Brexit people like Boris Johnson. I wouldn't trust him to run a bath - let's not forget his shameful antics over the Heathrow vote. He thinks of nothing but his own career. And I'm also tired of other Brexiteers who go running to the right wing pro-Brexit press every time one of their ill considered lunatic ideas is rebuffed by either the remain leaning Tories or the EU. How about you twats come up with a plan that actually works FFS.

 

[BadFish]

Are people allowed to change their minds in a democracy?

Is there evidence that a significant amount of people have changed their mind?

Should the will of the people be reassessed if said will has changed?

I believe that this is why we have regular elections in democracies. Those who wish to freeze public opinion and not allow change have a different name don't they?

If Brexit is still a good idea and the people still want it then why not have another referendum now you have a better idea of what is actually at stake?

 

[Hampster Gull]

One good thing though is with Boris no longer Foreign Secretary at least the rest of the world can stop laughing at this departments gaffes or can they

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt mistakenly referred to his wife as Japanese during a visit to Beijing to discuss post-Brexit trade deals between the UK and China.

Mr Hunt's wife is actually Chinese.

Easy mistake to make Jeremy after all .........oh dear

The Tories the gift that just keeps on giving would be funny if the fact was that they are in charge of Brexit!

That’s brilliant. Was watching highlights of Faulty Towers late last night. This would have worked in one of their sketches

 

[GT49er]

What is their plan then?

8 months to go,I really do think its about time the rest of us were let in on it,or, is it as we remoaners think, therebis no plan, and never has been a plan , and theres no plan on the horizon anytime soon.

But, if course you prefer to put the blame for this monumental ,( with stress on the mental) cluster**** on those who never believed that this retreat from the EU could ever have a good outcome, instead of the incompetents who lied and cheated to win the referendum fill your boots.
Any futurevthat includes stockpiling of medecines and foodstuff, is not going to be a post EU utopia, no matter what the little Englanders tell us.

Sorry, forget to add #little Englanders to #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea.

Nice invective though - your fellow remoaners will love it!

 

[lawros left foot]

One thing that bothers me more than anything else is this idea that anti-Brexit people are somehow responsible for this complete shambles. There is absolutely no reason why any of us remainers shouldn't continue our democratic right to object to it any more than Brexiteers like Farage shouldn't have continued his own fight as he promised had it been 52-48 the other way. [MENTION=19800]lawros left foot[/MENTION] lists a bunch of Brexiteers who had a stake in how Brexit should happen, but have now cowardly backed away from it. I do think it's time these people were held to account by people on their own side i.e. Brexit voters. Stop blaming people like me for this utter clusterfck. Instead, what we've seen is a lack of willing on the part of brexit politicians to resolve the major issues, and the constant fall back of blaming the EU and "remoaners" whenever they don't get their way.

Firstly, the Irish border. A very complicated situation, and in all honesty the only way I can see that working is for NI to remain in the EU. But instead of Brexiteers recognising this obvious fact, all we've heard from them is that it's all the fault of the Irish government or the EU holding us to ransom. It clearly isn't. They haven't changed the status quo - we have. And with this in mind this issue should have been sounded out/thought about well before the 2016 referendum was held.

Secondly, access to the common market. We have spent 40 years building an economy whereby components of high tech products (and services) go back and forth over EU national borders without attracting tariffs. Car plants (for example) in this country simply won't function cost effectively unless we resolve this problem. To elaborate, a car is built in modular steps - headlights constructed in Belgium and shipped here, perhaps with light bubs built in France. Glass windows churned out in Poland and shipped here, that sort of thing. We still have no clue what they are going to do - it is a desperate situation.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think a second referendum of some sort is likely to happen. We've had gutless leadership from pro-remain Theresa May and even worse from Brexit people like Boris Johnson. I wouldn't trust him to run a bath - let's not forget his shameful antics over the Heathrow vote. He thinks of nothing but his own career. And I'm also tired of other Brexiteers who go running to the right wing pro-Brexit press every time one of their ill considered lunatic ideas is rebuffed by either the remain leaning Tories or the EU. How about you twats come up with a plan that actually works FFS.

This, I agree with every word, it was what I was trying to convey in my clumsy, clunky posts.

If we are relying on Rees Mogg, seemingly a refugee from Bertie Wooster books, to sort it out, it will only end in an unmitigated disaster..

 

[GT49er]

How about you twats come up with a plan that actually works FFS.

Remainer almost manages to complete a post without abuse, but fails...................

 

[BadFish]

One thing that bothers me more than anything else is this idea that anti-Brexit people are somehow responsible for this complete shambles. There is absolutely no reason why any of us remainers shouldn't continue our democratic right to object to it any more than Brexiteers like Farage shouldn't have continued his own fight as he promised had it been 52-48 the other way. [MENTION=19800]lawros left foot[/MENTION] lists a bunch of Brexiteers who had a stake in how Brexit should happen, but have now cowardly backed away from it. I do think it's time these people were held to account by people on their own side i.e. Brexit voters. Stop blaming people like me for this utter clusterfck. Instead, what we've seen is a lack of willing on the part of brexit politicians to resolve the major issues, and the constant fall back of blaming the EU and "remoaners" whenever they don't get their way.

Firstly, the Irish border. A very complicated situation, and in all honesty the only way I can see that working is for NI to remain in the EU. But instead of Brexiteers recognising this obvious fact, all we've heard from them is that it's all the fault of the Irish government or the EU holding us to ransom. It clearly isn't. They haven't changed the status quo - we have. And with this in mind this issue should have been sounded out/thought about well before the 2016 referendum was held.

Secondly, access to the common market. We have spent 40 years building an economy whereby components of high tech products (and services) go back and forth over EU national borders without attracting tariffs. Car plants (for example) in this country simply won't function cost effectively unless we resolve this problem. To elaborate, a car is built in modular steps - headlights constructed in Belgium and shipped here, perhaps with light bubs built in France. Glass windows churned out in Poland and shipped here, that sort of thing. We still have no clue what they are going to do - it is a desperate situation.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think a second referendum of some sort is likely to happen. We've had gutless leadership from pro-remain Theresa May and even worse from Brexit people like Boris Johnson. I wouldn't trust him to run a bath - let's not forget his shameful antics over the Heathrow vote. He thinks of nothing but his own career. And I'm also tired of other Brexiteers who go running to the right wing pro-Brexit press every time one of their ill considered lunatic ideas is rebuffed by either the remain leaning Tories or the EU. How about you twats come up with a plan that actually works FFS.

I am in neither camp and thank my lucky stars that I didn't have to vote but you are spot on here.

My question remains 'How on earth can such an important and complicated decision be made with such a simplistic question?"

Surely there needs to be follow up to find out what people actually expect from it? Some discussion on the plan? Is there a plan?

No wonder the major players walked away from this cluster**** soon after the vote.

Fair play to the brexiteers though, they seem to be toughing it out and seem to be prepared to accept what ever shitty terms this government are given. Are you chaps really going to be happy with it though?

 

[lawros left foot]

Sorry, forget to add #little Englanders to #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea.

Nice invective though - your fellow remoaners will love it!

Still no idea of a plan , then.

Tick tock

 

[Simster]

Sorry, forget to add #little Englanders to #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea.

Nice invective though - your fellow remoaners will love it!

I think there are plenty of Brexiteers who fit #thick. #old, #racist, #no idea perfectly*. You, however, are not one of them.

Can you now refrain from your equally tedious "remoaner" label? Cheers. You'd do well to remember who the ones doing the moaning over the last 40 years have actually been.



* [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] is certainly very thick and he's not alone. Why on this very thread, he even asked what benefits the EU have given the average Brit. I mean FFS. I'm sure you can find similar pro-remain levels of ignorance but the point is that this is the danger of referendums - people this ignorant get a chance to vote on seismic decisions.

Remainer almost manages to complete a post without abuse, but fails...................

This is pitiful.