[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

The point of returning sovereign powers is to hold our directly elected representatives to account if they don't deliver they are directly accountable and can be removed. Good luck voting out the EU commission when they inflict crushing austerity on a member state ..

Just like you've held them to account over the Brexit negotiations

 

[The Clamp]

Said an EU/Goldmann Sachs spokesman.

Sorry?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Well it was slightly different last time he was cornered into giving a straight answer to that question

But as he made clear, it's definitely not extending membership, definitely not

About time you started chastising the numerous remainers talking up a no deal as you have assured us it won't and never was going to happen. Is your crystal ball looking a little cloudy?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

2 in 7 voters didn't vote and of the 5 in 7 that did a small majority voted for something made up by some unaccountable gammon, most of whom scarpered immediately after the result.

I don't have a problem with a second referendum on a scenario that is known, i.e. a No Deal Brexit with a clean break from the EU vs the status quo pre-June 2016.

What I do object to his this "will of the people" bollocks where - on the Brexit side - people knew what they were voting against but were clueless what they were voting for.

Exactly


( although our friends here all know EXACTLY what EVERYBODY voted for )

#BrexitMeansBrexit

 

[Bold Seagull]

The referendum result is not the will of the people. The referendum result is the result of a large scale confidence trick. What is happening now is not what anybody wants. Brexit is not the will of the people.

Said an EU/Goldmann Sachs spokesman.

Said resigning 'leave' MPs. Said Remainers. Said Leavers. Taking control remember.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What is truly catastrophic for our democracy is that a campaign can be funded illegally and be fought on a tissue of lies.

All of the central pillars of the campaign are being removed, one by one. £350m per week for the NHS, Turkey joining the EU, they need us more than we need them, have cake and eat it, sovereignty of parliament (yet attempts to bypass it thwarted by Gina Miller / judges = traitors).

Turkey joining may now be a long way down the road but at the time of the referendum, with Cameron in power, the UK stance was to support and assist Turkey joining. Cameron had made many public comments on it for years. Given his enthusiasm for them joining you can't blame voters for considering it during the referendum.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

2 in 7 voters didn't vote and of the 5 in 7 that did a small majority voted for something made up by some unaccountable gammon, most of whom scarpered immediately after the result.

I don't have a problem with a second referendum on a scenario that is known, i.e. a No Deal Brexit with a clean break from the EU vs the status quo pre-June 2016.

What I do object to his this "will of the people" bollocks where - on the Brexit side - people knew what they were voting against but were clueless what they were voting for.

Every election is the will of the people 'bollocks' with lies, half-truths and broken promises which is why it's important to retain a direct democratic ability to remove them. It takes a particular type of arrogance thet expects a new UK democratic norm to be established where the losing side gets a second go before a democratic result can be enacted ... see I'm alright jack we always no best types **** democracy mentality.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

You are special in many ways but I take it as read you all believe everything you read in the Guardian

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Turkey joining may now be a long way down the road but at the time of the referendum, with Cameron in power, the UK stance was to support and assist Turkey joining. Cameron had made many public comments on it for years. Given his enthusiasm for them joining you can't blame voters for considering it during the referendum.

Let's get one thing straight. Turkey under Erdogan is never going to join the EU. While the Syrian situation rages Turkey is never going to join the EU. Even if Juncker converted to Islam, became a Turkish citizen and was elected President Turkey is still not joining the EU. Cameron knows nothing.

 

[ManOfSussex]

( although our friends here all know EXACTLY what EVERYBODY voted for )

#BrexitMeansBrexit

So does Esther McVey

[tweet]1019898338693582849[/tweet]

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

So does Esther McVey

[tweet]1019898338693582849[/tweet]

I like Esther McVey: she reminds me why I could never vote Tory.

 

[nicko31]

Turkey joining may now be a long way down the road but at the time of the referendum, with Cameron in power, the UK stance was to support and assist Turkey joining. Cameron had made many public comments on it for years. Given his enthusiasm for them joining you can't blame voters for considering it during the referendum.

Seem to recall Boris was pretty up for Turkey joining too, then changed his mind like everything else

 

[Mo Gosfield]

The referendum result is not the will of the people. The referendum result is the result of a large scale confidence trick. What is happening now is not what anybody wants. Brexit is not the will of the people.

No. To leave the EU was the will of a majority of the people that voted and thats what counted.
The referendum was a massive political gamble by a PM that put party politics before the interests of the country. Their arrogance defied belief. They were so sure of themselves that they were convinced they could shut up the Eurosceptics in the party once and for all. They were so arrogant, that they didn't stop to consider that some of the British people might just have noticed that every time Mr Cameron returned from Brussels, there was a worse deal on the table. They didn't stop to consider that many of the SME'S in this country had had enough of European beaurocracy and red tape that was strangling them as businesses. The majority of them do all their business within these shores and they are the lifeblood of this country, not the big corporations. They didn't bother to garner public opinion in deprived areas. Why should they? Two old Etonians, part of the club, the Establishment.
They then proceeded to run an appalling campaign, based entirely on scare tactics, which most saw through for the arrogance and shallowness it displayed. They made the job easy for Leave. Instead of having to use facts and figures to back up their case, the Leave campaign concentrated on a few emotive soundbites and it worked.
It wasn't a confidence trick by the Leave campaign. Anyone stupid enough to believe the claims of both sides ( Economic Armageddon on one hand/ vast NHS spending and greatly reduced immigration on the other hand ) is probably not best trusted to sit the right way round on a toilet seat. The politicians were to blame then and they are to blame now. If the most important vote this country has had for decades can be set up and run in such a cavalier, irresponsible and frankly, criminal fashion, then is it no wonder that the inmates who are running the asylum have created an even bigger mess now.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Let's get one thing straight. Turkey under Erdogan is never going to join the EU. While the Syrian situation rages Turkey is never going to join the EU. Even if Juncker converted to Islam, became a Turkish citizen and was elected President Turkey is still not joining the EU. Cameron knows nothing.

We'll be doing a red,white and blue #owntradedeals with them though in the future. I wonder what easing on visa restrictions there'll be on Turks visiting The UK as result....................

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Let's get one thing straight. Turkey under Erdogan is never going to join the EU. While the Syrian situation rages Turkey is never going to join the EU. Even if Juncker converted to Islam, became a Turkish citizen and was elected President Turkey is still not joining the EU. Cameron knows nothing.

Never going to join in the near future,True .. but it's a fact that the EU was and is still pumping billions of Euros into Turkey for the specific reason of them attaining the entry criteria.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Every election is the will of the people 'bollocks' with lies, half-truths and broken promises which is why it's important to retain a direct democratic ability to remove them. It takes a particular type of arrogance thet expects a new UK democratic norm to be established where the losing side gets a second go before a democratic result can be enacted ... see I'm alright jack we always no best types **** democracy mentality.

I've never previously seen any battle bus display an outright lie as big as "£350m a week for the NHS" and I probably never will, such was the staggering gall of the move. Leave realised they could play on people's fears and sell them completely unrealistic dreams, and do it with complete impunity. As the campaign wore on the lies got bigger.

To draw parallels to that campaign and a normal General Election campaign is like comparing Panorama to Lord of The Rings.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I like Esther McVey: she reminds me why I could never vote Tory.

Yes - I also like her too in the sense that she makes all other Scousers look alright.

 

[The Clamp]

Let's get one thing straight. Turkey under Erdogan is never going to join the EU. While the Syrian situation rages Turkey is never going to join the EU. Even if Juncker converted to Islam, became a Turkish citizen and was elected President Turkey is still not joining the EU. Cameron knows nothing.

We knew that but please remember that Leave voters fell for a lot of lies that were specifically directed to appeal to their mentality....

Dirty Turks coming over here and raping our women, stealing the cleaning jobs, getting free hair cuts from the NHS and being allowed to build their own houses on the graves of War Veterans.

£350m a week can go towards helping the NHS cure your Mum's cancer not sending it over to the Krauts to build a robot Hitler.

Under the EU we simply have no way of checking criminal records of immigrants and we have absolutely not got a system in place that can remove immigrants who cannot pay their way after three years that we have chosen to ignore and that is why they come over here, 450 of them an hour on a two man dinghy filling up an area the size of the UK every two weeks.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So any particular reason why an obviously highly principled man like yourself makes a complete change of position on 'no deal' from

Once again you seem to be assuming because the UK or the EU wouldn't be ready it couldn't possibly happen. Hypothetically speaking I would expect Emergency measures continuing the current arrangments with a transition period until both sides can adjust to the new reality.

In that hypothetical scenario, no deal means talks have irrevocably broken down possibly very near the March 29 deadline. Therefore I expect some form of transition process would be needed to reduce the impact and disruption which both sides are likely to agree to as, like you, I can't see how they would be ready. Also it's not continuing EU membership as we would have left on March 29 all those promises about paying tens of billions and future funding commitments no longer stand. The Eu probably wouldn't even agree to extending membership anyway.

To

I have no idea ... not something often heard on this thread

Or has there been a dawning of reality and this is going to be your new standard answer on anything Brexit related

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Yes - I also like her too in the sense that she makes all other Scousers look alright.

Yeah - even Joey Barton (well, maybe not)