[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

No deal, without a transition and leaving on 30/03/19:

Main consequences of scenario 2: withdrawal on 30 March 2019 without a withdrawal agreement

The United Kingdom will be a third country and Union law ceases to apply to and in the United Kingdom.

Citizens: There would be no specific arrangement in place for EU citizens in the United Kingdom, or for UK citizens in the European Union.

Border issues: The European Union must apply its regulation and tariffs at borders with the United Kingdom as a third country, including checks and controls for customs, sanitary and phytosanitary standards and verification of compliance with EU norms. Transport between the United Kingdom and the European Union would be severely impacted. Customs, sanitary and phytosanitary controls at borders could cause significant delays, e.g. in road transport, and difficulties for ports.

Trade and regulatory issues: The United Kingdom becomes a third country whose relations with the European Union would be governed by general international public law, including rules of the World Trade Organisation. In particular, in heavily regulated sectors, this would represent a significant drawback compared to the current level of market integration.

Negotiations with the United Kingdom: Depending on the circumstances leading to the withdrawal without an agreement, the EU may wish to enter into negotiations with the United Kingdom as a third country.

EU funding: UK entities would cease to be eligible as Union entities for the purpose of receiving EU grants and participating in EU procurement procedures. Unless otherwise provided for by the legal provisions in force, candidates or tenderers from the United Kingdom could be rejected.


https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/inf...-preparing-withdrawal-brexit-preparedness.pdf

Hope you didn't google that.

Calling [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION], please tell MoS why this isn't going to happen and never was and to stop scare mongering.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Once again you are both presenting a possibility as fact. It says they might be needed, but only if the UK and EU don't agree to mutually recognise licences.

How are the government going to do a deal for mutual licences? We're heading for no deal, a three month recess, so when is the government going to find time to sort out licences?
The day after Brexit, there are 164 trade deals that need to be signed immediately, and 700 in total, so driving licences will be at the bottom of the pile.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Did you laugh as you typed this? I did. Great satire.

At some point you may realise there is another world outside the Guardian bubble

 

[Pavilionaire]

The Remain camp had a huge spend advantage and the weight of the Uk government machine, UK/European, global establishment and big business behind them. For tissue of lies see project fear, both sides stretched the truth/fibbed.

The Central Pillar of the Leave campaign was 'take back control'. Many people voted to leave because they wanted more democratic accountability and many were fed up of being continually ignored. I would humbly suggest ignoring their democratic voice would be a mistake. If voting doesn't make any difference even when they are in the majority what do you suggest they do next to make their voices heard?

Classic whataboutery. Without the lies re the NHS, the threat of mass immigration from Turkey, the 'cake and eat it' then Leave would have lost comfortably - with or without "taking back control".

The difference was less than 4%. There is no doubt the lies swung it. So we jump off an economic cliff because some gammon peddled some serious lies that enough people swallowed for it to make a difference??

 

[Bold Seagull]

At some point you may realise there is another world outside the Guardian bubble

Or the bubble in believing we will be 'taking back control', 'having more democratic accountability' or 'not being ignored'. So glad when we leave and we get all those.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

At some point you may realise there is another world outside the Guardian bubble

Could I just say how much I resent you insulting Bold Seagull in this fashion? That is your insult to ME not him. I thought I was special but you have let me down.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Hope you didn't google that.

Calling [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION], please tell MoS why this isn't going to happen and never was and to stop scare mongering.

So what do you think will happen if time runs out?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Could I just say how much I resent you insulting Bold Seagull in this fashion? That is your insult to ME not him. I thought I was special but you have let me down.

Snowflake!

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

So what do you think will happen if time runs out?

For me the consequences of leaving without a deal trumps everything else. As a Remainer I'd be squeamish about a poor deal being ignored. But a no deal is a different matter: no ifs or buts, I couldn't stomach seeing that total car crash that would ensue. We have a duty to the generation that follows who didn't get a chance to vote - or even be mislead in the Referendum.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Classic whataboutery. Without the lies re the NHS, the threat of mass immigration from Turkey, the 'cake and eat it' then Leave would have lost comfortably - with or without "taking back control".

The difference was less than 4%. There is no doubt the lies swung it. So we jump off an economic cliff because some gammon peddled some serious lies that enough people swallowed for it to make a difference??

You were talking about the influence of spending ...

I have not seen any conclusive analysis as to why people voted the way they did on either side so to say there is' no doubt' is just a biased opinion. The use of the term 'gammon' further undermines your argument.

Back to the big question ... 'If voting doesn't make any difference even when they are in the majority what do you suggest they do next to make their voices heard?'

 

[The Clamp]

The referendum result is not the will of the people. The referendum result is the result of a large scale confidence trick. What is happening now is not what anybody wants. Brexit is not the will of the people.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The referendum result is not the will of the people. The referendum result is the result of a large scale confidence trick. What is happening now is not what anybody wants. Brexit is not the will of the people.

Said an EU/Goldmann Sachs spokesman.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The Remain camp had a huge spend advantage and the weight of the Uk government machine, UK/European, global establishment and big business behind them. For tissue of lies see project fear, both sides stretched the truth/fibbed.

The Central Pillar of the Leave campaign was 'take back control'. Many people voted to leave because they wanted more democratic accountability and many were fed up of being continually ignored. I would humbly suggest ignoring their democratic voice would be a mistake. If voting doesn't make any difference even when they are in the majority what do you suggest they do next to make their voices heard?

I agree with you that the whole thing is a sorry episode for our democratic process.

On the flip side to your scenario, are you considering the people who voted for all that new funding for the NHS, and how they are going to feel when that money never existed, and it gets sold off to private interests because of a lack of funding?

Or the people who voted just to give the 'establishment' a kicking, and how they feel with no change to their lives, save for a stripping back of all their workers' rights.

Or the people who voted to end Freedom of Movement, because they read a story about Romanians begging, and Poles taking someone's job, and how they will feel when our shiny new trade deals with India and Pakistan include freedom of movement for work?

Or the people (not that anyone has the balls to admit it) who voted mainly to keep out all the brown people, and how they will feel when we increase immigration from the sub-continent to replace all the workers we lose from the EU?

The ones for whom it was genuinely ALL about sovereignty at any cost (William Wallace and [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] ) will be happy, I guess, and everyone else can just suck it up.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Could I just say how much I resent you insulting Bold Seagull in this fashion? That is your insult to ME not him. I thought I was special but you have let me down.

You are special in many ways but I take it as read you all believe everything you read in the Guardian

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So what do you think will happen if time runs out?

I have no idea ... not something often heard on this thread

 

[WATFORD zero]

So what do you think will happen if time runs out?

Once again you seem to be assuming because the UK or the EU wouldn't be ready it couldn't possibly happen. Hypothetically speaking I would expect Emergency measures continuing the current arrangments with a transition period until both sides can adjust to the new reality.

In that hypothetical scenario, no deal means talks have irrevocably broken down possibly very near the March 29 deadline. Therefore I expect some form of transition process would be needed to reduce the impact and disruption which both sides are likely to agree to as, like you, I can't see how they would be ready. Also it's not continuing EU membership as we would have left on March 29 all those promises about paying tens of billions and future funding commitments no longer stand. The Eu probably wouldn't even agree to extending membership anyway.

Well it was slightly different last time he was cornered into giving a straight answer to that question

But as he made clear, it's definitely not extending membership, definitely not

 

[nicko31]

Classic whataboutery. Without the lies re the NHS, the threat of mass immigration from Turkey, the 'cake and eat it' then Leave would have lost comfortably - with or without "taking back control".

The difference was less than 4%. There is no doubt the lies swung it. So we jump off an economic cliff because some gammon peddled some serious lies that enough people swallowed for it to make a difference??

The referendum wasn't thought through and I blame Cameron for this, where is he now? To leave ans step into the unknown with a country more or less 50/50 is ridiculous

If we do go off a cliff I can see a brain drain in the UK and massive resentment from the younger generation left to pick up the bill, while still being expected to fund an oldies that largely f**ked them over. If I were under 30 I know exactly what I would do...

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I agree with you that the whole thing is a sorry episode for our democratic process.

On the flip side to your scenario, are you considering the people who voted for all that new funding for the NHS, and how they are going to feel when that money never existed, and it gets sold off to private interests because of a lack of funding?

Or the people who voted just to give the 'establishment' a kicking, and how they feel with no change to their lives, save for a stripping back of all their workers' rights.

Or the people who voted to end Freedom of Movement, because they read a story about Romanians begging, and Poles taking someone's job, and how they will feel when our shiny new trade deals with India and Pakistan include freedom of movement for work?

Or the people (not that anyone has the balls to admit it) who voted mainly to keep out all the brown people, and how they will feel when we increase immigration from the sub-continent to replace all the workers we lose from the EU?

The ones for whom it was genuinely ALL about sovereignty at any cost (William Wallace and [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] ) will be happy, I guess, and everyone else can just suck it up.

As funny as those who believed they were just voting for a status quo or we would suddenly lead and steer the EU in a direction more to our liking #gullible idiots.

The point of returning sovereign powers is to hold our directly elected representatives to account if they don't deliver they are directly accountable and can be removed. Good luck voting out the EU commission when they inflict crushing austerity on a member state ..

 

[Pavilionaire]

You were talking about the influence of spending ...

I have not seen any conclusive analysis as to why people voted the way they did on either side so to say there is' no doubt' is just a biased opinion. The use of the term 'gammon' further undermines your argument.

Back to the big question ... 'If voting doesn't make any difference even when they are in the majority what do you suggest they do next to make their voices heard?'

2 in 7 voters didn't vote and of the 5 in 7 that did a small majority voted for something made up by some unaccountable gammon, most of whom scarpered immediately after the result.

I don't have a problem with a second referendum on a scenario that is known, i.e. a No Deal Brexit with a clean break from the EU vs the status quo pre-June 2016.

What I do object to his this "will of the people" bollocks where - on the Brexit side - people knew what they were voting against but were clueless what they were voting for.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

As funny as those who believed they were just voting for a status quo or we would suddenly lead and steer the EU in a direction more to our liking #gullible idiots.
.

Christ. Which part of that did you think was supposed to be FUNNY?