[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

Interesting point.

Many people voted for the Cameron/Osborne Govt and their proposed cuts back. Admittedly, they had to do something as there was no money left. Voters voted for cuts but most people like cuts that don't affect THEM. Pensioners are usually covered as they have the power of the vote (and the triple lock Pension).

A lot of people of people say they just want to exit because, if they are honest, it won't really affect them, especially retired people who don't need to worry about a job.

You mention a 5% drop, and we don't know the real figure. If you are prepared to take a 5% drop, would you be be prepared for 5 people you know (out of 100 friends/family) to lose their jobs to take control of our country?

Would you be prepared to lose you own job to take control of the country. (sorry, I don't know you, I am assuming you are of working age).

Just curious, as you are the first person who has admitted how much of hit you are prepared to take.

Cheers

Very true. The more vehement Brexiteers on here are dusty old pensioners.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There's some very angry remainers posting today it seems.

Well, [MENTION=3734]Giraffe[/MENTION]’s post was a bit bizarre. And I’d like him to answer if he, or his friends, would be willing to sacrifice their jobs for Brexit.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you think that Labour are in any way united on Brexit, then you are deluded (IMO). It’s widely reported that they are as split as the Tories.

Christ, even Corbyn has voted against the EU at EVERY opportunity in his time in parliament. It’s easy to snipe from opposition as you can critique everything and offer nothing. Starker puts forward plans which would get rejected by the EU, but he doesn’t have to present them to the EU. The infighting in both parties OPs down to Brexit and the strong feelings on both sides.

Holiday going well?

 

[larus]

It’s what a great leader would do, it’s clear that the Brexitear elite lied to the country about how simple and straightforward this would be

Please advise us who this Brexiteer Elite is who are running the negotiations?

May.
Hammond.
Olly Robbins. (A civil servant who is negotiating instead of Davis, as Davis was marginalised by May).

All REMAINERS. Not one Brexit advocate there.

The clusterfvck is being caused by the Remainers. We should have prepared for No Deal/WTO. That doesn’t stop us trading with the EU and all the BS about planes not flying - for Christs sake, that’s just more fear as per the Project Fear and the “If we don’t join the EURO, all these companies will leave and invest in the Euro area”. Too much crying wolf, yet some are just gullible.

 

[larus]

Holiday going well?

Home now after 3 weeks away. Lovely time though, thanks for asking.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Please advise us who this Brexiteer Elite is who are running the negotiations?

May.
Hammond.
Olly Robbins. (A civil servant who is negotiating instead of Davis, as Davis was marginalised by May).

All REMAINERS. Not one Brexit advocate there.

The clusterfvck is being caused by the Remainers. We should have prepared for No Deal/WTO. That doesn’t stop us trading with the EU and all the BS about planes not flying - for Christs sake, that’s just more fear as per the Project Fear and the “If we don’t join the EURO, all these companies will leave and invest in the Euro area”. Too much crying wolf, yet some are just gullible.

What agreement has been reached on aviation then?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Please advise us who this Brexiteer Elite is who are running the negotiations?

May.
Hammond.
Olly Robbins. (A civil servant who is negotiating instead of Davis, as Davis was marginalised by May).

All REMAINERS. Not one Brexit advocate there.

The clusterfvck is being caused by the Remainers. We should have prepared for No Deal/WTO. That doesn’t stop us trading with the EU and all the BS about planes not flying - for Christs sake, that’s just more fear as per the Project Fear and the “If we don’t join the EURO, all these companies will leave and invest in the Euro area”. Too much crying wolf, yet some are just gullible.

I'll ask again.

What preparations should we have made for no deal?

Start building the NI border and border posts?

Start building the lorry parks at the Ports?

Start requirements analysis and design of the IT systems to handle WTO rules and tariffs?

 

[Baldseagull]

its undeomcratic because it upside down, EU parliament is the revision chamber. its like us being ruled by Lords rather than Commons. meanwhile the day to day executive is the appointed commission, with no members voted on by their home countries. but you know that and remainers are happy with that arrangement.

The problem you are having is looking at our system, thinking that this is democracy and anything else is not. We have a frigging Monarch sticking her beak into whatever she wants to, each Government tries to load the Lords with cronies, the first past the post system creates from time to time a coalition, where differing views have to find a way to work and compromises are found, but usually it creates a one sided Parliament where the ruling party gets it's way, an elected dictatorship almost. Some think this is a better way to get things done, and all I can say to argue against that is to say it is easier to get things wrong too. Compare SNP MP's to UKIP MP's numbers in Parliament and compare the numbers of individual viotes, not in Mays snap election but the one before. To be in a situation where for five years at a time most of us are living under the control of a Party we did not vote for is not a good example of democracy.

 

[Baldseagull]

You're making out that not having to join the Euro was a concession to the UK. The truth is that no member of the EU at the time HAD to join the Euro, it was a choice. New members do now have to join. So being generous and calling it a consession, it was a consession to all members not a specific UK concession. In reality it wasn't a concession at all.

Fair, but also fair to point out that this is one issue of leaving, seeing if it works out and if not, rejoining. If the door is open at all, then the membership conditions are likely to give us less control than we have now.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What agreement has been reached on aviation then?

Aviation rules are set by the International Civil Aviation Organisation of which our Civil Aviation Authority is a member ..... as almost every national Aviation Authority in the world is. I think w'll be OK to keep the planes in the air

 

[ManOfSussex]

Revoke Article 50, tell the country that she will prepare a proper truthful plan which will be laid out in detail, so the public can understand it, and then allow another vote in two years time.

That's too much like common sense for any politician.

Just finishing off The Times today and although The EU isn't preparing for Article 50 to be revoked, it is preparing for and anticipating a request from us for it to be extended in the event of our strong and stable Government's collapse or a no deal scenario. Legal preparations are well afoot, including allowing British MEP's to carry on and stand in next year's European elections and although it would require unanimous agreement of all 27 EU governments that's described as being a 'done deal.'

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Fair, but also fair to point out that this is one issue of leaving, seeing if it works out and if not, rejoining. If the door is open at all, then the membership conditions are likely to give us less control than we have now.

Indeed ..... and a reason I'd be very unlikely to vote to re-join. Especially as it would probably involve joining La La land known as the Eurozone.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Aviation rules are set by the International Civil Aviation Organisation of which our Civil Aviation Authority is a member ..... as almost every national Aviation Authority in the world is. I think w'll be OK to keep the planes in the air

Really? I'm so pleased the aviation sector are worrying over nothing then and everything's agreed and in place in regards to reciprocal and bilateral agreements required in regards to the open skies agreement.

Either that, or you don't really know what you're talking about again.

 

[Dick Head]

Lord Carrington died today. Boris Johnson isn't fit to clean his boots.

 

[spring hall convert]

I think when the dust settles here, we might just think May has played a blinder (in a political sense I mean, WE'RE still ****ed.) You must remember with May she is pragmatism above ideology at all times, similar to Cameron and Blair.

Firstly, she plays the 'ideology above all else' Brexit mobs game and tries to get a majority on a blank cheque and fails, had she won a significant majority at that election she would have been perfectly happy going down the hard Brexit road unencumbered, as it would have been the line of least resistance.

Having kicked the can down the road for nearly a year, at pretty much the exact point that it's impossible for the Tories to have a leadership battle without making it blindly obvious they don't give two hoots about the country, she devises something halfway sensible to deliver to the cabinet at Chequers, needing only the Goves and Leadsoms of this world to swallow it (which they will because both are way more interested in their own career advancements to flounce off.)

Johnson, Davies, Rees Mogg et al are left with no options and May has a unified cabinet with the troublemakers removed. A leadership battle and potential election now is electoral suicide and they know it. They had a long time to steer this ship in their direction and failed.

Even if she can't get her deal past her own party, she may well be able to rely on help from elsewhere. Let us not forget there is a significant portion of the Labour Party, sidelined by Mr. Corbyn who see themselves as ideologically closer to her than they do to their own leader and are just itching for another chance to damage him.

 

[abc]

Lord Carrington died today. Boris Johnson isn't fit to clean his boots.

Totally. Looking back perhaps he was one of the last politicians who had genuine integrity, an understanding of what duty meant and what representing your country meant. There were genuinely good people on all sides of the house then but now there appear to be few, if any.

Yesterday was a cause for celebration because the most arrogant, selfish, petulant and incompetent foreign secretary ever resigned. Today is a cause for sadness and reflection over what and who we have lost and what we are now left with.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The political establishment, though, is not just moaning - they are actively trying to sabotage the government's attempts to negotiate a deal for leaving the EU. That is a fact.

No it isn't.....

Let's stick to facts here, shall we?

Well, you haven't. If it wasn't for the irony bypass in your post that would be more or less ok though. Politics is not about sticking to facts AT ALL. It is about opinion. Corbyn's opinion is that we'd all be better off paying more tax and nationalising stuff. May prefers a more free market approach. The Greens see it all through a lens of environmentalism and so on and so on. There isn't a politician alive in this country that has ever stuck to the facts.

You think it's a stupid idea; that is a fact. But the fact that you think it's a stupid idea doesn't make it so. It's just your opinion, and a minority one at that. The majority voted otherwise.

I don't remember the poll card saying "is Brexit a stupid idea". If it had listed out all of the issues that would crop up with leaving, along with the timeline, the ballot paper would have been a lot more honest but it also would have been about three pages long and turn out would have been about 5%. It was a binary vote on a single premise after some fairly disingenuous campaigning on both sides. What's really disappointing is that literally all the architects of that victory have buggered off. Call Me Dave? Gone. Gove? Gone. Boris? Gone. Farage? Couldn't get out quick enough. Why aren't these people who BELIEVE that Brexit isn't stupid out there leading it?

A fact? No, it’s just your skewed opinion.

Quite.

 

[Two Professors]

I'll ask again.

What preparations should we have made for no deal?

Start building the NI border and border posts?

Start building the lorry parks at the Ports?

Start requirements analysis and design of the IT systems to handle WTO rules and tariffs?

You're like a stuck record.I think somebody did a song 'Mr Wrong',oh no it was a Roger Hargreaves book.Mr Soft might be better,like what's in your head.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

If you think that Labour are in any way united on Brexit, then you are deluded (IMO). It’s widely reported that they are as split as the Tories.

Christ, even Corbyn has voted against the EU at EVERY opportunity in his time in parliament. It’s easy to snipe from opposition as you can critique everything and offer nothing. Starker puts forward plans which would get rejected by the EU, but he doesn’t have to present them to the EU. The infighting in both parties OPs down to Brexit and the strong feelings on both sides.

I know that. It doesn't change the Tories need a break from power. It isn't about backdoor remain.

 

[spring hall convert]

Gove? Gone.

To be fair to Gove (and God knows why I'm doing this) he stood for leader (sabotaging Boris Johnson in the process, maybe that's why I'm doing this) and now has a brief (Environment. Food & Rural Affairs) that is going to be heavily impacted by Brexit.