[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

That wold mean two parties whose manifesto would be 'we will negociate a Brexit deal, and if we fail, its hard Brexit' versus one party whose manifesto would be 'let's have another referendum in the hope we can reverse the Brexit decision'.......(the latter party being one that has failed to have any traction with the electorate for 100 years).

That'll work.

Given the recent months I would hope, and it’s a desperate hope I concede, that both parties would have a seriously long hard look at themselves and the situation we are in, and put something sensible on the table. The current situation, from both parties, is a total ****ing mess and something has to change. This cannot carry on. And the British public should not let it carry on.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

It can, but it won't. After all, it was only the majority of those who voted, many of whom have changed their minds.

The one thing that leavers and remainers can agree on, is that the whole thing is a complete shambles, caused by lies, deceit and illegal funding.

1) What evidence do you have that ' many ' have changed their minds? What has changed within the EU since June 2016, to make anyone who voted Leave now want to vote Remain? Our economy is still 80% services and 20% goods, so the EU trading arrangements still don't suit us. We still do 80% of our business within these shores. Our ever rising population needs more and more spent on it out of the public purse and this can only come from increased taxation or monies saved from the EU. Views on other issues haven't changed. Immigration, border control, more control over taxation and law making and regaining of sovreignty are still all out there. Those who voted Leave accepted that some tougher times lay ahead and that path wouldn't be made easier by those who are desperately against change and only feel secure within the status quo, or in the case of many, have a personal vested interest in remaining.
2) What illegal funding are you referring to? The 600k attributed to the Leave campaign or the £9m of taxpayers money spent by Cameron and Osborne on flooding the country with pro-Remain leaflets, with no consultation.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It’s 3 out of 5 of the ministers in the Brexit dept. SO yeah, reasonably big. She’ll try to blag it off, but (IMO) she’s now clearly on borrowed time,

This whole clusterfvck has been caused by raminers undermining the democratic process and warning to stop Brexit. The Tories made a serious mistake with May as leader. I’ve never rated her and she’s confirmed my views of her incompetence. The makes CMD seem Churchillian.

I hope we end up with a Brexiteeer in No 10 & 11. Sensibly plan for WTO/No Deal and then tell the EU what the terms are. If they want to negotiate in good faith then OK. If not, then their choice. But we can cut back on our sharing of Five Eyes data etc. If they want to play silly buggers over Galileo etc.

Davis and Baker, who's the third of five?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I'm going to be unspeakably smug and say that with respect to Davis, you heard it here first - before the Friday meeting at Chequers.

If anyone goes now it will be Davis, I reckon

I now predict:

1. England will lose 3-0 to Belgium in the Final

2. Elvis is alive and well and living in Worthing

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Given the recent months I would hope, and it’s a desperate hope I concede, that both parties would have a seriously long hard look at themselves and the situation we are in, and put something sensible on the table. The current situation, from both parties, is a total ****ing mess and something has to change. This cannot carry on. And the British public should not let it carry on.

Agree 100% with that.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

1) What evidence do you have that ' many ' have changed their minds? What has changed within the EU since June 2016, to make anyone who voted Leave now want to vote Remain? Our economy is still 80% services and 20% goods, so the EU trading arrangements still don't suit us. We still do 80% of our business within these shores. Our ever rising population needs more and more spent on it out of the public purse and this can only come from increased taxation or monies saved from the EU. Views on other issues haven't changed. Immigration, border control, more control over taxation and law making and regaining of sovreignty are still all out there. Those who voted Leave accepted that some tougher times lay ahead and that path wouldn't be made easier by those who are desperately against change and only feel secure within the status quo, or in the case of many, have a personal vested interest in remaining.
2) What illegal funding are you referring to? The 600k attributed to the Leave campaign or the £9m of taxpayers money spent by Cameron and Osborne on flooding the country with pro-Remain leaflets, with no consultation.

Its all on the Brexit thread, and other sources like Our Freedom Our Choice.
As for illegal funding, the Electotoral Commission has said there were four breaches of electoral law.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

PMQs could be fun this week, with an entirely new front bench behind Mrs May

Always the best angle for a knife attack...………………..

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm going to be unspeakably smug and say that with respect to Davis, you heard it here first - before the Friday meeting at Chequers.

If anyone goes now it will be Davis, I reckon

I now predict:

1. England will lose 3-0 to Belgium in the Final

2. Elvis is alive and well and living in Worthing

Just because you got an odds on favourite doesn't make you mystic Meg

 

[pb21]

Would seem that Gove's 180 over the UKs relationship with the EU yesterday is either based on a realisation of the actual situation or he knew Davis would resign and he was lining himself up for the position and didn't mind advocating something he presumably doesn't like.

 

[larus]

Davis and Baker, who's the third of five?

I read that Suella Braverma had resigned to. Maybe that was wrong.

 

[Berty23]

It’s 3 out of 5 of the ministers in the Brexit dept. SO yeah, reasonably big. She’ll try to blag it off, but (IMO) she’s now clearly on borrowed time,

This whole clusterfvck has been caused by raminers undermining the democratic process and warning to stop Brexit. The Tories made a serious mistake with May as leader. I’ve never rated her and she’s confirmed my views of her incompetence. The makes CMD seem Churchillian.

I hope we end up with a Brexiteeer in No 10 & 11. Sensibly plan for WTO/No Deal and then tell the EU what the terms are. If they want to negotiate in good faith then OK. If not, then their choice. But we can cut back on our sharing of Five Eyes data etc. If they want to play silly buggers over Galileo etc.

Are you sure it wasn't caused by triggering article 50 before making a plan? I am staggered how many people think that no deal is actually an option. The country would grind to a halt. It would be like heavy snow, gale force winds, France port strikes, fuel strikes and bank holiday all rolled into one. Almost half of our exports go to EU - what replaces these? As for access to the c50 agencies that keep us safe and mobile, what replaces these?

Have you read anything that buinsesses have said about just in time manufacturing?

 

[larus]

No, it was caused by your vote. Another prediction we got right: Brexiteers will blame remainers for the inevitable foul up.

And still, it's everyone else's fault eh! So very, very predictable.

May/Hammond - Remainers. Say no more eh.

I know you don’t like facts - just wild supposition.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Given the recent months I would hope, and it’s a desperate hope I concede, that both parties would have a seriously long hard look at themselves and the situation we are in, and put something sensible on the table. The current situation, from both parties, is a total ****ing mess and something has to change. This cannot carry on. And the British public should not let it carry on.

It will carry on. And what choice do we have? 'We' voted for this. We voted for Brexit without there ever being any definition of what Brexit is. We can hardly 'force' a second referendum or general election. We have to sit back and let the clueless morons get on with it. If I were Theresa May now I'd put Rees Mogg in charge. I would also sack fat Boris who apparently said somethng yesterday about polishing a turd. I did that once at work and got hauled before a disciplinary committee (which failed to polish the turd). But Theresa won't do any of this. Maybe the EU will step in at the eleventh hour with some sort of a deal to save us, bailing us out of a hard brexit suicide. Maybe not. And some peope still think this is all great.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I read that Suella Braverma had resigned to. Maybe that was wrong.

Says her position is vacant on wiki, but haven't seen anything else

 

[Albumen]

You can't implement something the majority of the UK and most of Europe never wanted in the first place. Give it up.

 

[vegster]

Brexit has been remarkably good for Mr Davis though.

A nice Ministerial top up to his pension and plenty of free travel and a chance to cash in with a book in a couple of years time telling everyone what should have happened..... If his hands hadnt been tied during negotiations.. Not me guv.

 

[Berty23]

You can't implement something the majority of the UK and most of Europe never wanted in the first place. Give it up.

The majority voted to leave but the problem was there were about 100 different versions of what leave means. We have reached the stage where peace means what mogg says but the reality is that most leavers pre vote didn't think it meant leaving the single market and customs union (remainers far likely to think it did). How can anyone negotiate something when they don't know what they are negotiating.

 

[WATFORD zero]

May/Hammond - Remainers. Say no more eh.

I know you don’t like facts - just wild supposition.

I've always wondered why the Boris /Gove/Nige dream team that led the magnificent referendum campaign didn't step up to the plate

Bit of a conundrum here. On Friday, after 2 and a bit years, leave voters eventually found out what they voted for. Is that still the case or are they going to have to wait even longer ?

 

[n1 gull]

The usual line trotted out by the true believers. Not everyone who voted leave voted for a hard brexit.

Totally correct. Common sense is finally to the fore. Time to unite the country, of course not everyone will be happy but I think the majority of people can get on board this Brexit and move on!!

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

A ridiculously low majority IS most people

'Majority' means two things

a) an 'overall majority' means 50% +1 of those eligible to vote
b) a 'simple majority means getting more votes than the rival

The referendum was a particular type of simple majority in that the majority of simple folk voted Leave and the majority of the Leave vote consisted of such voters