[Politics] Brexit

[melias shoes]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/no-deal-brexit-could-cost-140-billion-2017-12?r=US&IR=T

Here we go. Report from the Rand Corporation (USA based/generally respected think-tank, so please don't brand as 'Project Fear'). Most would read this as a pretty grim projection for our post-Brexit prospects but a few Brexiteers might feast on the morsels of optimism herein?

That's the Rand Corporation although sponsored by the U.S. government is predominantly affiliated to the Democrats. Which we all know Obama and the Clintons wanted Britain to remain in the EU. You know democrats. So let's just say it's another attempt at project fear.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/03/03/think-tank-employees-tend-to-support-democrats

 

[daveinprague]

That's the Rand Corporation although sponsored by the U.S. government is predominantly affiliated to the Democrats. Which we all know Obama and the Clintons wanted Britain to remain in the EU. You know democrats. So let's just say it's another attempt at project fear.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/03/03/think-tank-employees-tend-to-support-democrats

Affiliated? Go on...

 

[BigGully]

As I say, you're a dimwit. You don't do yourself any favours do you!

You know the 'adapt and flourish' quote a little off message but you said it, similarly your post just after the referendum when you said categorically that there WILL be a second referendum and article will NOT ever be invoked, laughable of course but you still post as if you are one of the three wise men.

 

[BigGully]

I’ve read this a few times now and I’m struggling to understand your point. What intolerances are you referring to with respect to me?

Strong and stable, your wet nurse of a politician Merkel, it was embarrassing.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

That's the Rand Corporation although sponsored by the U.S. government is predominantly affiliated to the Democrats. Which we all know Obama and the Clintons wanted Britain to remain in the EU. You know democrats. So let's just say it's another attempt at project fear.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/03/03/think-tank-employees-tend-to-support-democrats

Fair play to you for digging this out. I'd say that if you are looking for a conspiracy, you'll generally find one. However, the ultimate test of bias is their methodology and I'm not qualified to question this (perhaps you are better placed in this respect?).
I would suggest that their projections are broadly in line with others from 'the centre'/mainstream - but that might just imply an even bigger conspiracy if someone was minded to impute that motive.
I'm not quite sure which or whose evidence you might accept as legitimate? (Genuine question, not point-scoring.)

As for the 'project fear' tab, I think it's hard to put their report into this box as I can't see who they are trying to influence - it's not as if this report was issued in the midst of the referendum when the decision was up for grabs. But, again, you might be equipped with more insight than me on this one.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Strong and stable, your wet nurse of a politician Merkel, it was embarrassing.

Are you saying Germany is intolerant to “strong and stable”? Or Merkel? Or both? And what are they doing which is “nasty?” I’m still struggling to follow your point.

Can someone who does understand it maybe translate it?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Strong and stable, your wet nurse of a politician Merkel, it was embarrassing.

What has this reply got to do with the question? I'm interested in your reply, to this and the question about left/right.

 

[BigGully]

Are you saying Germany is intolerant to “strong and stable”? Or Merkel? Or both? And what are they doing which is “nasty?” I’m still struggling to follow your point.

Can someone who does understand it maybe translate it?

Please someone, someone ..... you remind me of the Inbetweeners.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Fair play to you for digging this out. I'd say that if you are looking for a conspiracy, you'll generally find one. However, the ultimate test of bias is their methodology and I'm not qualified to question this (perhaps you are better placed in this respect?).
I would suggest that their projections are broadly in line with others from 'the centre'/mainstream - but that might just imply an even bigger conspiracy if someone was minded to impute that motive.
I'm not quite sure which or whose evidence you might accept as legitimate? (Genuine question, not point-scoring.)

As for the 'project fear' tab, I think it's hard to put their report into this box as I can't see who they are trying to influence - it's not as if this report was issued in the midst of the referendum when the decision was up for grabs. But, again, you might be equipped with more insight than me on this one.

The second main story on BBC News all day has been a report by an American think tank warning that “nearly all” the possible outcomes of Brexit will see the UK worse off than staying in the EU. Of course the Rand Corporation, which published the report, is funded by the European Commission, the European Parliament and the European Union Research Executive Agency. Not that the Beeb thought to mention that…

Guido has read the Rand report so you don’t have to. It is filled with flaws and biases – for example it says the Brexit bill will be up to €75 billion (fact check: it’s between £35-39 billion). The report looks at many types of supposed models for Brexit, but it bizarrely doesn’t assess the outcome of the UK signing trade deals with multiple countries, one of the main reasons for leaving: “We did not explore the… model in which the UK would complete FTAs with numerous countries”. This is the government’s plan, why is it not included in the study?

Then there is the model Rand say they have used to determine their figures – it is the same as the infamous Treasury model that wrongly predicted a calamitous aftermath of a Leave vote. Debunked…

The report admits that “research for this study was completed as of 15 September 2017”. Eh? Quite a lot has happened since September – not least talks moving onto phase 2 when just a few months ago Remainers said they were doomed. Maybe if the study was up to date they’d have got the Brexit bill right…

And remember how the Beeb noted that “nearly all” of the outcomes were dire? What their coverage didn’t mention today is Rand’s finding that if the UK agrees FTAs with both the EU and the US we would see double the amount of GDP growth than any one of the so-called soft Brexit scenarios. Odd that this finding was missing from the BBC’s own coverage…

UPDATE: And the Rand report finds almost no difference in terms of GDP impact between the EEA minus or CETA plus models.

https://order-order.com/2017/12/12/bbc-hypes-gloomy-brexit-report-by-eu-funded-think-tank/

I find a good test for any think tank or economists predictive powers is finding out what they had to say about the Uk joining the Euro, did they predict the 2008 crash, did they predict any economic crash/downturn .... swallowing and parrotting any data that suits a pre concieved position is easier obviously.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What has this reply got to do with the question? I'm interested in your reply, to this and the question about left/right.

I’m glad it’s not just me

 

[ManOfSussex]

swallowing and parrotting any data that suits a pre concieved position is easier obviously.

As opposed to swallowing and parroting anything and everything from the Guido Fawkes blog site that suits a pre conceived position?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Socialists? So this is a left/right business? Must make a note of that.

It certainly is for some on here. Corbynistas motivation is pretty blatant, attacking the government no matter what they do while hoping it will rip itself to pieces over Brexit so the Dear Leader can take charge. The recent agreement to move to trade talks and apparent truce in the Tory party has been a real downer for them. Shame.

 

[daveinprague]

It certainly is for some on here. Corbynistas motivation is pretty blatant, attacking the government no matter what they do while hoping it will rip itself to pieces over Brexit so the Dear Leader can take charge. The recent agreement to move to trade talks and apparent truce in the Tory party has been a real downer for them. Shame.

Drivel.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

As opposed to swallowing and parroting anything and everything from the Guido Fawkes blog site that suits a pre conceived position?

Hows the drive against antisemitism going comrade?

https://order-order.com/2017/12/12/...-group-headed-israel-no-right-exist-activist/

 

[ManOfSussex]

Hows the drive against antisemitism going comrade?

https://order-order.com/2017/12/12/...-group-headed-israel-no-right-exist-activist/

Just proves my original point in regards to you and the Guido Fawakes blog site - This has gotten to be very poor quality and repetitive trolling now by you.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Drivel.

Clueless as usual then dave it's not as if they are subtle about it

 

[daveinprague]

Clueless as usual then dave it's not as if they are subtle about it

You do realise there is a difference between your perception and reality yeah?

What was Corbyn's stand on Brexit before the referendum?
What is the duty of an opposition party? (hint: Clues in the name)

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Just proves my original point in regards to you and the Guido Fawakes blog site - This is very poor quality and repetitive trolling now by you now.

Need to tidy up on that typing MoS ... ?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You do realise there is a difference between your perception and reality yeah?

What was Corbyn's stand on Brexit before the referendum?
What is the duty of an opposition party?

Fair point I'm sure many would agree MoS and Ernie provide a completely balanced impartial analysis and have no agenda what so ever....

A lifelong Eurosceptic backing Remain (sort of).

To scrutinise the government's actions and provide clear and coherent alternative policies?

 

[daveinprague]

Fair point I'm sure many would agree MoS and Ernie provide a completely balanced impartial analysis and have no agenda what so ever....

A lifelong Eurosceptic backing Remain (sort of).

To scrutinise the government's actions and provide clear and coherent alternative policies?

So, you believe that Brexit is a left vs right issue?