[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Most can't see beyond the end of their nose, it seems to me.

you would say that , nice to see the next step to leaving the EU going through parliament bye bye EU
regards
DR

 

[beorhthelm]

Oh and your 4th solution is no solution at all - what does "light" even mean? It is basically the worst of solutions a) and b) combined. How can you have the sheer front to blame the EU for making this a battle line if that's the best you can come up with yourself?

like your c) solution for UK and Ireland to join Schengen, which doesn't even touch on customs union. Ireland is first and foremost a state in its own right, and the EU should treat Ireland differently because there are exceptional circumstances, as it capable of doing elsewhere. you've helped me understand why the EU is taking the position it is.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Indeed. It is incredibly depressing. The UK used to be seen as a reasonably tolerant nation, open, democratic ("the mother of parliaments"), etc. We are now turning into a bunch of angry xenophobes, whilst at the same time undermining parliament, perverting democracy, and bungling towards isolationism. It is truly embarrassing to be a Brit at the moment. I hope (against hope) that I'll wake up some time and discover it was all a nasty dream.

if you were British you would be getting behind BREXIT, NOT GRIZZLING LIKE A BABY......... it's happening
regards
DR

 

[Simster]

you mean like your c) solution for UK and Ireland to join Schengen, which doesn't even touch on customs union. Ireland is first and foremost a state in its own right, and the EU should treat Ireland differently because there are exceptional circumstances, as it capable of doing elsewhere. you've helped me understand why the EU is taking the position it is.

But c) is a genuine alternative to a) and b). The first two discuss where to put passport checks, the third does away with altogether. Your solution is woolly at best (no definition of "light") and at worst it is the worst of both a) and b) (border controls at sea AND on the island).

So I'm genuinely curious, where has the EU allowed an external state to treated a given member state differently owing to exceptional circumstances? Does Norway have different rules for trading or moving with Denmark and Sweden owing to a shared history (as with Ireland and the UK) as opposed to other EU states? I suspect not.

Here is a wiki page on current opt outs, no such example exists here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union

 

[beorhthelm]

So I'm genuinely curious, where has the EU allowed an external state to treated a given member state differently owing to exceptional circumstances? Does Norway have different rules for trading or moving with Denmark and Sweden owing to a shared history (as with Ireland and the UK) as opposed to other EU states? I suspect not.

Here is a wiki page on current opt outs, no such example exists here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union

i was referring to general ability to concede exceptions when it chooses to, as your link illustrates.

 

[Simster]

i was referring to general ability to concede exceptions when it chooses to, as your link illustrates.

Yes, but nothing in that link is on the same level as allowing external countries to have different agreements with member states within the single market and customers union is it? That is the whole point of a single market. This premise of yours where you peddle this myth that the EU are intransigent over Ireland is absolutely ridiculous and clearly doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. Not only have you proved the point by being unable to provide any sort of alternative solution yourself (perfectly understandable - there isn't one) but we can also see that as a single customs union, although the EU does allow for certain opt-outs, it will not allow member states to have differing agreements with external nations.

And above all else, this problem is NOT of the EU's making, it is for the UK to solve. So all this nonsense about the EU putting up barriers is ill considered drivel.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, but nothing in that link is on the same level as allowing external countries to have different agreements with member states within the single market and customers union is it?

you mean Schengen and the non-acceptance of the Euro dont count as exceptions? you're being too literal to compare to a specific scenario, probably deliberately, when i only point out the EU can compromise when it sees fit. i understand that you dont want to see compromise as that would be seen as weakness in the EU and the fear that this will cause a collapse. a more positive perspective might be that the benefits of membership of the EU would keep members from following the UK path, hey they didnt offer that argument last year either.

 

[beorhthelm]

lucky we didn't say anything about Gibraltar...

 

[jaghebby]

Discussions about a border seem largely irrelevant to controlling immigration as the immigration from out side the EU, taht we are supposed to have control over the years has largely failed.

 

[nicko31]

Indeed. It is incredibly depressing. The UK used to be seen as a reasonably tolerant nation, open, democratic ("the mother of parliaments"), etc. We are now turning into a bunch of angry xenophobes, whilst at the same time undermining parliament, perverting democracy, and bungling towards isolationism. It is truly embarrassing to be a Brit at the moment. I hope (against hope) that I'll wake up some time and discover it was all a nasty dream.

Yeap just back from 2 weeks Europe, its pretty embarassing to be a Brit there right now and pretty bloody expensive as our currency is now worth peanuts, a lot of expats feel completely betrayed by what is going on.

So the Repeal Bill hits parliament, its set up get a choppy ride as it tries to undermine our democracy, May really would love to be a dictator given the chance.

Now Labour have finally woken up to the impending disaster the government will need to listen, just 7 MP's to cross to house, then there's the Lords.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Yeap just back from 2 weeks Europe, its pretty embarassing to be a Brit there right now and pretty bloody expensive as our currency is now worth peanuts, a lot of expats feel completely betrayed by what is going on.

So the Repeal Bill hits parliament, its set up get a choppy ride as it tries to undermine our democracy, May really would love to be a dictator given the chance.

Now Labour have finally woken up to the impending disaster the government will need to listen, just 7 MP's to cross to house, then there's the Lords.

oh please give it up ! embarrassing to be a brit you sound like a wet lettuce I BET THE LOCALS WERE SO PLEASED YOU WERE THERE GIVING THEM YOUR EUROS, AS FOR THE EX PATS DID THEY SAY WHEN THEY WERE COMING BACK TO THE UK, comedy genius I have to admit
regards
DR

 

[beorhthelm]

So the Repeal Bill hits parliament, its set up get a choppy ride as it tries to undermine our democracy, May really would love to be a dictator given the chance.

as much as there are concerns about the potential application of the Repeal Bill, are you aware that it seeks the same powers through statutory instruments that ministers have used for decades to implement EU directives? or did you think they all got passed through parliament and primary legislation?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

you would say that , nice to see the next step to leaving the EU going through parliament bye bye EU
regards
DR

I did say that, and I meant it. Im looking forward to the rising food prices, chaos in the hospitality industry, chaos in the Health Service, and that is all just from the current effect of BREXIT, let alone the idiotic approach to immigration that the Tories are now touting.

I have read just this morning that:
1. from the Financial times, leaders of Industry are refusing to sign or put their names to a letter drafted by no. 10 that they support the government's approach to BREXIT. I think they used the expression "won't be strong-armed into......, which is hardly FT language and shows some desperation.
2. from the BBC News, that the NFU (National Farmers Union) is predicting chaos if the current proposed approach to immigration becomes real.
3. That the government is going to seek a special relationship with the EU over University Research funding, pointing out that British Universities received far more from the fund than we put in to it.

We're all doomed.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The laughable position I refer to, which is what you're espousing, is that it is for the EU to come up with a solution. It isn't, it is the UK who need to do this. The EU tried (via the Irish PM) and got nothing but scorn, so now they've told the UK to come up with a resolution to this, that doesn't impact Ireland's free movement within the EU.

Naturally, it is only serving to highlight the lunacy of the position of those absolute thickets in the DUP - the party of xenophobes and zealots propping up the current sap government - who want a hard Brexit (unlike the majority of NI) but are insisting on an open Irish border. It is ludicrous and unworkable. If that's not true, it's up to them to prove otherwise rather than shouting down suggestions like an intolerant school teacher. Naturally, like so much else surrounding Brexit, it's unworkable and a complete mess of a policy.

Very much this.

For years the Brexiteers have been wanting out due to supposed EU interference and meddling in British affairs. Now they're leaving they want the EU to help find a solution. You really couldn't make this shit up.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Yeap just back from 2 weeks Europe, its pretty embarassing to be a Brit there right now and pretty bloody expensive as our currency is now worth peanuts, a lot of expats feel completely betrayed by what is going on.

So the Repeal Bill hits parliament, its set up get a choppy ride as it tries to undermine our democracy, May really would love to be a dictator given the chance.

Now Labour have finally woken up to the impending disaster the government will need to listen, just 7 MP's to cross to house, then there's the Lords.

Your right, embarrasing to a Brit in Portgugal as I handed over my euros, read the menu in English and spoke to nearly everyone in English, as it was their second language. They look at us with envy as we are about to leave, Britains oldest ally now being dictated to by Herr Merkel and the 'puppet' Junkers. So the pound doesn't get you much in Europe, looks like we will be buying less and they will be selling less, who's losing there?

Its a negotiation, there is leaking, misinformation and damed right lies from both sides here and you are making an accurate judgement, hmmm. As for dear Comrade Jeremy , he doesn't know what he wants!!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Very much this.

For years the Brexiteers have been wanting out due to supposed EU interference and meddling in British affairs. Now they're leaving they want the EU to help find a solution. You really couldn't make this shit up.

you just have
regards
DR

 

[The Merry Prankster]

I'm at Lords today and have been able to observe Farage in the flesh. It's hard to think of any way he could be more part of the "elite". What ever you think of his politics, he is a posh bloke who'd get even money in the upper class twit of the year competition.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Very much this.

For years the Brexiteers have been wanting out due to supposed EU interference and meddling in British affairs. Now they're leaving they want the EU to help find a solution. You really couldn't make this shit up.

I would expect you more than anyone else to understand European culture seeing as you have lived in Germany. Admit it, Europeans can never admit their own mistakes, it's in their sodding culture, they just don't understand British culture period.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I'm at Lords today and have been able to observe Farage in the flesh. It's hard to think of any way he could be more part of the "elite". What ever you think of his politics, he is a posh bloke who'd get even money in the upper class twit of the year competition.

He was at The South Africa Lords Test too. I think his friend and Honourable Member for the 18th century would be odds on to win upper class twit of the year though.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

He was at The South Africa Lords Test too. I think his friend and Honourable Member for the 18th century would be odds on to win upper class twit of the year though.

View attachment 89016

True, but he's worth an each way bet especially in the strange straw hat he was modelling today.