[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

It's one of the blue cip companies!

Then I'm very leased for him.

 

[Simster]

I agree completely,but that Jesse Owens showed them what for,eh!

I hope he has taken out French citizenship and moved there then.Otherwise,it could be a colossal waste of cash,according to our remainers.

How would you explain the Commonwealth then?Bit too multi-cultural for you?

Perhaps you could ask Soulman about that.Oh,wait.The lefties stalked and harassed him off the board.

What are you on about.I was making a comparison between the Commonwealth(and having to look outwards),and the EU (an ever more inward looking organisation).How you can possibly say that was tangential to the usual rubbish trotted out by remain about inward looking little england xenophobes.Bit of a glib statement to make,wasn't it?

Yes, I couldn't possibly say what gave me that idea?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Is that a comparison between the British Empire and the EU I see?

 

[beorhthelm]

looking like EU is using the Ireland situation as another battle front, rather than an opportunity to create wiggle room and compromise as i originally hoped. they seem to insist that the UK come up with a solution that's agreeable to the EU, ignoring our position is to simply maintain an open boarder. its not for the UK to enforce EU rules once we leave.

 

[Simster]

looking like EU is using the Ireland situation as another battle front, rather than an opportunity to create wiggle room and compromise as i originally hoped. they seem to insist that the UK come up with a solution that's agreeable to the EU, ignoring our position is to simply maintain an open boarder. its not for the UK to enforce EU rules once we leave.

This is the same laughable position that the UK government are taking. The status quo was that we were in the EU, but the UK are seeking to change that. Why should it be for anybody else to take the lead on the Irish border issue?

Actually, the EU (in the guise of the Irish PM) have already offered suggestions, which the deluded DUP slapped down:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40819687
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40788689

Given this recent history, I'm not surprised the EU have essentially said "Well fck it then, YOU come up with some ideas to problems YOU are creating".

 

[Jim in the West]

A once great nation very publicly ripping itself to pieces as it moves ever more backward and inward. It's very depressing. That Olympic opening ceremony was a total charade.

Indeed. It is incredibly depressing. The UK used to be seen as a reasonably tolerant nation, open, democratic ("the mother of parliaments"), etc. We are now turning into a bunch of angry xenophobes, whilst at the same time undermining parliament, perverting democracy, and bungling towards isolationism. It is truly embarrassing to be a Brit at the moment. I hope (against hope) that I'll wake up some time and discover it was all a nasty dream.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Indeed. It is incredibly depressing. The UK used to be seen as a reasonably tolerant nation, open, democratic ("the mother of parliaments"), etc. We are now turning into a bunch of angry xenophobes, whilst at the same time undermining parliament, perverting democracy, and bungling towards isolationism. It is truly embarrassing to be a Brit at the moment. I hope (against hope) that I'll wake up some time and discover it was all a nasty dream.

I am not a Britain-basher, I would love to be proud of what we do and stand for but I have never felt more ashamed. I travel a fair amount and the prevailing feeling towards us seems to a mixture of pity, disbelief and sorrow (the anger has passed) which has replaced the admiration that many have shown in the past. One day what we are losing will be more clear and future generations will not treat the self-proclaimed patriots well.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is the same laughable position that the UK government are taking.

what is laughable about having no border and customs controls? its essentially the same thing Varadkar is suggesting. they dont want a hard border, we dont want a hard boarder. the EU could recognise the exceptional scenario (as it already does in some other areas such as free travel error exemption already in EU law) and look for suitable exception to apply. instead they make it another front on which to dig in and say "non". the problem is, if they follow through on this, really hold out and push this to the conclusion where the dreaded "cliff edge" occurs, its the Irish who would be most impacted, not the UK or the rest of EU. there's already talk in Ireland of leaving too (not much but its there).

actually, its worse than that, the EU are creating a paradox: they wont discuss trade arrangements with the UK until Ireland situation is agreed, and they wont agree any bilateral trade arrangements between UK and Ireland. how does that resolve itself?

 

[Simster]

what is laughable about having no border and customs controls? its essentially the same thing Varadkar is suggesting. they dont want a hard border, we dont want a hard boarder. the EU could recognise the exceptional scenario (as it already does in some other areas such as free travel error exemption already in EU law) and look for suitable exception to apply. instead they make it another front on which to dig in and say "non". the problem is, if they follow through on this, really hold out and push this to the conclusion where the dreaded "cliff edge" occurs, its the Irish who would be most impacted, not the UK or the rest of EU. there's already talk in Ireland of leaving too (not much but its there).

The laughable position I refer to, which is what you're espousing, is that it is for the EU to come up with a solution. It isn't, it is the UK who need to do this. The EU tried (via the Irish PM) and got nothing but scorn, so now they've told the UK to come up with a resolution to this, that doesn't impact Ireland's free movement within the EU.

Naturally, it is only serving to highlight the lunacy of the position of those absolute thickets in the DUP - the party of xenophobes and zealots propping up the current sap government - who want a hard Brexit (unlike the majority of NI) but are insisting on an open Irish border. It is ludicrous and unworkable. If that's not true, it's up to them to prove otherwise rather than shouting down suggestions like an intolerant school teacher. Naturally, like so much else surrounding Brexit, it's unworkable and a complete mess of a policy.

 

[Two Professors]

Is that a comparison between the British Empire and the EU I see?

Perhaps you could expand on that a bit more,or you stand a very good chance of being accused of being glib.Oh,no-perhaps on-liners are ok for remainers,just not allowed for Brexiteers.
Is there a band called the British Empire?Don't see how it could be compared to the EU though,and it appears that,at the moment,you are the only one to mention the Empire.Perhaps another boor will be along in a minute to give you some back-up.

 

[beorhthelm]

The laughable position I refer to, which is what you're espousing, is that it is for the EU to come up with a solution. It isn't, it is the UK who need to do this. The EU tried (via the Irish PM) and got nothing but scorn, so now they've told the UK to come up with a resolution to this, that doesn't impact Ireland's free movement within the EU.

the UK position doesn't ask the EU to come up with a solution, only to accept a proposal of no physical border control. this doesnt need to be a conflict, all three parties say they want no hard border, so let there be no border. it doesn't affect Irish citizens free movement in EU either way, how could it?

 

[Simster]

Perhaps you could expand on that a bit more,or you stand a very good chance of being accused of being glib.Oh,no-perhaps on-liners are ok for remainers,just not allowed for Brexiteers.

Say what you like, it's just that it's very tiresome when that is what constitutes 90% of your contribution to the thread, as in your case.

 

[5ways]

Perhaps you could expand on that a bit more,or you stand a very good chance of being accused of being glib.Oh,no-perhaps on-liners are ok for remainers,just not allowed for Brexiteers.
Is there a band called the British Empire?Don't see how it could be compared to the EU though,and it appears that,at the moment,you are the only one to mention the Empire.Perhaps another boor will be along in a minute to give you some back-up.

The idea we can 'fall back' on the Commonwealth is Brexit La La Land stuff.

 

[Simster]

the UK position doesn't ask the EU to come up with a solution, only to accept a proposal of no border control. this doesnt need to be a conflict, all three parties say they want no border, so let there be no border. it doesn't affect Irish citizens free movement in EU either way, how could it?

But the UK *does* want a border - they want a border between the EU and the UK so that they can control immigration.

There are therefore only three solutions to this. Either:

a) a land border within Ireland. The UK doesn't want this because of the implications to the peace process.
b) a sea border so that passport checks are not done across the Irish border, but are instead done before they arrive in mainland Britain. The UK rejects this out of hand as they don't want passport checks between constituent parts of the UK.
c) free movement of people across all EU states AND the UK. UK to join schengen. The UK doesn't want this because apparently we want our country back.

So really, it is a case of the UK wanting to have it's cake and eat it. What else do you suggest? Or more accurately, what else do you want the EU to suggest, seeing as apparently it is a problem for them, not us?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Perhaps you could expand on that a bit more,or you stand a very good chance of being accused of being glib.Oh,no-perhaps on-liners are ok for remainers,just not allowed for Brexiteers.
Is there a band called the British Empire?Don't see how it could be compared to the EU though,and it appears that,at the moment,you are the only one to mention the Empire.Perhaps another boor will be along in a minute to give you some back-up.

It depends if you see the Commenwealth as a group of countres tied together as former Empire nations I suppose.

 

[Two Professors]

Say what you like, it's just that it's very tiresome when that is what constitutes 90% of your contribution to the thread, as in your case.

Well isn't that what the ignore button is for?In most cases,I am just trying to add a bit of light relief to the constant misery-gutsing whining of the losing side.Not an ounce of positivity of any kind from you lot.You all seem to be looking forward to GB sinking into the mire,and BHA getting relegated,miserable bunch.Get a grip.On the subject of borders,perhaps they should listen to what we are saying.They don't seem to be having much luck themselves!

 

[pastafarian]

Why don't we ask parliament whether to have another referendum.

Parliament has been asked, they voted against it. Some of you really need to try and keep up.

 

[beorhthelm]

But the UK *does* want a border - they want a border between the EU and the UK so that they can control immigration.

There are therefore only three solutions to this. Either:

and there is the problem i suppose, the failure to recognise Ireland as physically separate to EU with exceptional circumstances in the relation with UK. in the EU perspective, Ireland is part of the EU mainland. UK have stated there is a different relationship with Ireland and that needs to be preserved, there no call to control immigration from Ireland (with existing common travel area rights preceding EU and bilateral agreements made since). a 4th solution is to have no border control and/or light customs controls at the land crossing and docks covering the sea traffic.

 

[pastafarian]

Indeed. It is incredibly depressing. The UK used to be seen as a reasonably tolerant nation, open, democratic ("the mother of parliaments"), etc. We are now turning into a bunch of angry xenophobes, whilst at the same time undermining parliament, perverting democracy, and bungling towards isolationism. It is truly embarrassing to be a Brit at the moment. I hope (against hope) that I'll wake up some time and discover it was all a nasty dream.

Of course you are depressed, you have invented a situation in your own head which doesnt exist to deliberately make yourself depressed.
If we are a closed, intolerant, undemocratic, xenophobic, democracy perverting nation why do so many people wish to come here to live and work every year? And why would record numbers(37 million) wish to visit such a hellhole last year?

 

[Simster]

and there is the problem i suppose, the failure to recognise Ireland as physically separate to EU with exceptional circumstances in the relation with UK. in the EU perspective, Ireland is part of the EU mainland. UK have stated there is a different relationship with Ireland and that needs to be preserved, there no call to control immigration from Ireland (with existing common travel area rights preceding EU and bilateral agreements made since). a 4th solution is to have no border control and/or light customs controls at the land crossing and docks covering the sea traffic.

But Ireland is an EU member state first and foremost (as was/is the UK). Why should the EU be forced to treat Ireland any differently just because the UK says it wants a different relationship with them as opposed to the rest of the EU? It is preposterous, and the onus is certainly NOT on the EU to find a solution. This mess is of our making, so we need to find the solution.

Oh and your 4th solution is no solution at all - what does "light" even mean? It is basically the worst of solutions a) and b) combined. How can you have the sheer front to blame the EU for making this a battle line if that's the best you can come up with yourself?