[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

After spending today at the CBI and talking to many business leaders I think the penny is starting to drop with Theresa.

There a lot of people delaying investment decisions right now, just too much uncertainty out there

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I'm not. He did.

He also said:

We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonality. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not compromised. We are interested and associated but not absorbed.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

He also said:

We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonality. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not compromised. We are interested and associated but not absorbed.

Churchill's established view was one of three linked and overlapping circles, representing Europe, the Empire/Commonwealth and the English-speaking world, with Britain standing at the point of overlap, a leading member of all. Jenkins's biography was one of the most inspirational books I've read. Trump's dealer-dreams are what we have now, in two lands at least. Perhaps they should replace Churchill's bust with one of Nigel in the White House soon - his is the crude pastiche of patriotism we have now.

 

[GT49er]

But we now know that the majority of people in the UK would vote to stay in the EU, were there to be a Referendum today.

.................and if we had a general election tomorrow, the Greens would win with a massive parliamentary majority, with the Lib Dems as the main opposition. And I hate to think what pigs will start doing..................................................

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Churchill's established view was one of three linked and overlapping circles, representing Europe, the Empire/Commonwealth and the English-speaking world, with Britain standing at the point of overlap, a leading member of all. Jenkins's biography was one of the most inspirational books I've read. Trump's dealer-dreams are what we have now, in two lands at least. Perhaps they should replace Churchill's bust with one of Nigel in the White House soon - his is the crude pastiche of patriotism we have now.

In which case, as the world Churchill envisaged does not exist by any stretch of the imagination nowadays, I'm not sure it's helpful to try to fit his words for the purpose of argument whether for or against the European Union.

 

[B-right-on]

But we now know that the majority of people in the UK would vote to stay in the EU, were there to be a Referendum today. As a nation we're actually more pro-EU than France and Italy.
I wonder if this information will make any difference to the Brexiteers?

NO !!!!!

I guess you got this 'fact' from the same Polls that predicted a 'close' GE, that Remain would win and Trump would not get the No 1 job in the USA.

I really feel £4,300 poorer because we voted for Bexit just like George Osbourne said I would and that 'Emergency Budget' after Brexit was crippling, the value of my house really has crashed just like Cameron and Osbourne said it would, those 820,000 jobs we lost we terrible .... oh er ....

 

[pastafarian]

Oh dear, it really does not matter what he has said elsewhere, we were discussing an edited video which you claimed changed the meaning, so you provided the full interview, here is the video you provided of the full, in public, interview with Dan Hannan. Watch and listen, pay particular attention from 1:00 to 1:14.


.

Of course it matters what he has said elsewhere, that way you get the bigger picture.
You should not be focusing on 14 seconds in a video.

" ‘Ooh, so you want us to be like Switzerland or Norway, do you?’ say Remainers. No: we can get a better deal than either. We are 65 million people to Switzerland’s eight million and Norway’s five million; on the day we left, we’d become the EU’s single biggest export market.
Still, it’s worth noting that Norway and Switzerland come first and second in the Legatum Prosperity Index and that their voters oppose EU membership by, respectively, 79 per cent and 82 per cent. They trade freely with the EU, while being exempt from (in Norway’s case) most or (in Switzerland’s) all its legal acts. They do pay Brussels, but less than we do per capita — far less, in Switzerland’s case. And, as well as the freedom to sign trade deals with overseas markets (they signed one with the Philippines last month, after just ten months of talks), they are self-governing democracies. The fact that they all have their own particular deals with Brussels shows how silly it is to expect us precisely to mimic someone else’s: we’d get our own deal, tailored to our own conditions. And thrive with a trade-based relationship with the EU."

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/six-best-reasons-vote-leave/

remember all these possible trade deals after Brexit are done as no longer members of the single market but trading with it.

 

[pastafarian]

Some people see stopping freedom of movement as a wonderful prize. Millions of us see it as a terrible price.

Its not just some though is it, its a majority view.
Millions see ending free movement as a necessity, even remainers.

It was known before the referendum that 70% of voters wanted immigration controlled and the latest survey done only a few days ago shows nothing has changed.

55% of remain voters and 85% of leave voters think we should be able to limit the number of EU migrants that come here.(70%)

74% of voters (remain and leave) believe that potential EU migrants should have to apply to come here in the same way non-EU migrants have to do.

And the survey/report conclusion? If it wasn’t obvious enough.
“These figures imply that there is relatively little public enthusiasm for adhering to the current freedom of movement provisions of the EU”

http://natcen.ac.uk/news-media/pres...le-market-but-be-able-to-control-immigration/

if you acknowledged free movement is nowhere near as important as you think it is, I believe you and some other remainers would be in a much happier place right now.

 

[Jim in the West]

NO !!!!!

I guess you got this 'fact' from the same Polls that predicted a 'close' GE, that Remain would win and Trump would not get the No 1 job in the USA.

I really feel £4,300 poorer because we voted for Bexit just like George Osbourne said I would and that 'Emergency Budget' after Brexit was crippling, the value of my house really has crashed just like Cameron and Osbourne said it would, those 820,000 jobs we lost we terrible .... oh er ....

None of this has happened because (in case you've missed it) we are STILL in the EU. It's when we leave that the problems will really start. Don't worry, you will definitely be a lot worse off.

 

[BadFish]

you don't live here
regards
DR

The stuff you do about the jam is much funnier.

 

[studio150]

.................and if we had a general election tomorrow, the Greens would win with a massive parliamentary majority, with the Lib Dems as the main opposition. And I hate to think what pigs will start doing..................................................

This is a worse nightmare than the Brexit result. A Green Government with a working majority how am I going to sleep tonight.
The outside two lanes on all motorways are now cycle highways. All roads are now 20mph including dual carriageways and motorways. Billions of pounds are wasted on vaniety projects.

Now where are the sleeping pills

 

[GT49er]

This is a worse nightmare than the Brexit result. A Green Government with a working majority how am I going to sleep tonight.
The outside two lanes on all motorways are now cycle highways. All roads are now 20mph including dual carriageways and motorways. Billions of pounds are wasted on vaniety projects.

Now where are the sleeping pills

Agree - a Green Government would go hell for leather to get us back into the EU.........and I think it's safe to assume the Lib Dem opposition wouldn't try to oppose them!

 

[Baldseagull]

Of course it matters what he has said elsewhere, that way you get the bigger picture.
You should not be focusing on 14 seconds in a video.

" ‘Ooh, so you want us to be like Switzerland or Norway, do you?’ say Remainers. No: we can get a better deal than either. We are 65 million people to Switzerland’s eight million and Norway’s five million; on the day we left, we’d become the EU’s single biggest export market.
Still, it’s worth noting that Norway and Switzerland come first and second in the Legatum Prosperity Index and that their voters oppose EU membership by, respectively, 79 per cent and 82 per cent. They trade freely with the EU, while being exempt from (in Norway’s case) most or (in Switzerland’s) all its legal acts. They do pay Brussels, but less than we do per capita — far less, in Switzerland’s case. And, as well as the freedom to sign trade deals with overseas markets (they signed one with the Philippines last month, after just ten months of talks), they are self-governing democracies. The fact that they all have their own particular deals with Brussels shows how silly it is to expect us precisely to mimic someone else’s: we’d get our own deal, tailored to our own conditions. And thrive with a trade-based relationship with the EU."

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/six-best-reasons-vote-leave/

remember all these possible trade deals after Brexit are done as no longer members of the single market but trading with it.

Wow, you really have an issue mate. I have never suggested that he advocated an exact replica of Switzerland or Norways arrangement, what I said, and you disputed, was what he means by access to the single market. The 14 seconds in the video are the 14 seconds where he clears up the misunderstanding you are labouring under in the most unequivocal manner, or rather it should have done, but you either lack the balls to be able to admit you got something wrong, or lack the intelligence to understand plain English.

Dan Hannan,in every interview, and every article I have seen, has said he wants and expects continued access to the single market, you keep pointing me to stuff where he makes the same point, (in your latest one it's 45 minutes in) but you keep misunderstanding him.

Please understand, that whilst there are differences between membership of and access to, free movement of people is included in both in every current example bar Liechtenstein, which has a population around the size of a sell out at the Amex. There is no indication from anyone who can be taken seriously on the subject that we would be likely to get anything different.

 

[Baldseagull]

Really, London is a world centre, not an EU centre for finance. With the uncertainty of what will happen in elections in Germany and France next year the smart money will be waiting to see what happens. The hollow threats from the bankers and now accountants need to be brought to fruition and moving to the Eu will not bring anymore qualified staff to do the job required. Everyone is vying for a position and the 24 hour media hover this speculation up and turn it into a drama. When the first major player goes i'll take notice, until then we shouldn't be stressing.

A third of our exported financial services is EU business, the US is just under a third, rest of the world just over a third. All the while we are in the single market there is no problem, but institutions are looking at where they may set up if we leave the single market. No one is going to jump yet, we may remain in the single market, the only current damage being done is that some will be holding off on further expansion in London, until the situation is resolved.

 

[Baldseagull]

Its not just some though is it, its a majority view.
Millions see ending free movement as a necessity, even remainers.

It was known before the referendum that 70% of voters wanted immigration controlled and the latest survey done only a few days ago shows nothing has changed.

55% of remain voters and 85% of leave voters think we should be able to limit the number of EU migrants that come here.(70%)

74% of voters (remain and leave) believe that potential EU migrants should have to apply to come here in the same way non-EU migrants have to do.

And the survey/report conclusion? If it wasn’t obvious enough.
“These figures imply that there is relatively little public enthusiasm for adhering to the current freedom of movement provisions of the EU”

http://natcen.ac.uk/news-media/pres...le-market-but-be-able-to-control-immigration/

if you acknowledged free movement is nowhere near as important as you think it is, I believe you and some other remainers would be in a much happier place right now.

But in the same report, 90% want to remain in the single market.
When asked if accepting free movement in return for free trade, as is the status quo, was acceptable, 51% said no, 49%, agreed with Dan Hannan and said yes.

 

[CheeseRolls]

But in the same report, 90% want to remain in the single market.
When asked if accepting free movement in return for free trade, as is the status quo, was acceptable, 51% said no, 49%, agreed with Dan Hannan and said yes.

There is a politicians pathway opening up, it remains to be seen if May and Co have the instinct to follow this through.

1 Go for article 50
2 Negotiate to remain in the common market and accept immigration controls as a transitory option (avoids the business falling off a cliff scenario) and continue to pay the EU
3 Begin negotiating independent trade agreements, including with the EU, as a preface to full exit.

Exit EU - tick
Avoid Economic suicide - tick
Retain option for full exit, but based on an economic model that is something more than wishful thinking from a small number of fanatics - tick

 

[Mo Gosfield]

This is a worse nightmare than the Brexit result. A Green Government with a working majority how am I going to sleep tonight.
The outside two lanes on all motorways are now cycle highways. All roads are now 20mph including dual carriageways and motorways. Billions of pounds are wasted on vaniety projects.

Now where are the sleeping pills

Sleep well....Alan Sugar will be PM before this happens and we all know that the notion of an outspoken billionaire rising to the highest office is just pure fantasy.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Does compliance with MIFID 2 mean that financial businesses don't actually have to up sticks and move into the EU ?

 

[GT49er]

But in the same report, 90% want to remain in the single market.
When asked if accepting free movement in return for free trade, as is the status quo, was acceptable, 51% said no, 49%, agreed with Dan Hannan and said yes.

That's a majority for 'no' then.

 

[BigGully]

That's a majority for 'no' then.

They will get the hang of it in the end .....................