[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

I don't please keep up

I have only gone back to my last 6 posts and you have posted quick reply on all of them......... so you are definitely keeping up.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Totally pointless and not even midly humourous,

just like you
regards
DR

 

[studio150]

I have only gone back to my last 6 posts and you have posted quick reply on all of them......... so you are definitely keeping up.

And have a look at Grimsby, Jungle, Weatherspoon, etc and let me know how many I have commented on in % terms.

 

[studio150]

just like you
regards
DR

Your retort is a real rib tickler though

 

[The Rivet]

Whichever thread, whatever forum. Leavers will not agree with remainers and vice versa. It is a particular mindset and regardless of arguments, lucid or ludicrous, that status quo will rule. Post your arguments, links to 'proof' and your insults. Remember however everyone knows the result, some wont accept and others rabidly defend it. Makes me smile and cringe at the same time. Bloody politics!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Well done for attempting to define right wing.

However much we try to explain it I believe that most people voted in the referendum for pretty visceral reasons and for many Leave voters those reasons included a general pissed-offedness with the people in charge of their lives. Having said that, I don't think that any significant recent political events have been caused (except on the fringes) by Labour voters having always had a 'natural suspicion of the corporate interests that Labour's elite have sided with', unless you include the growth of Momentum.

I used the word populist in the sense of political movements driven by motherhood and apple pie emotions such as patriotism, independence, standing-on-your-own-two-feet, common sense and suspicions of strangers. I certainly didn't intend the word to be code for working class. Apologies if I used it in the wrong way.

No worries at all. A lot of the old certainties and definitions have fallen by the wayside over the years including definitions of right and left wing and even of working class. Our definitions often depend upon the issues that are most important to us and I include myself in that. In a lot of ways the current political parties don't actually represent the views of the country and Brexit has highlighted this further. Many traditional Labour voters who would not vote UKIP and who do not want to be part of a federal Europe have been told by the Remainers that their views shouldn't count as they are stupid and racist. There's your
disconnect and it has not been created by people who voted Leave.

 

[Soulman]

who do not want to be part of a federal Europe have been told by the Remainers that their views shouldn't count as they are stupid and racist. There's your
disconnect and it has not been created by people who voted Leave.

Exactly, stating that the 17million plus that voted Leave are morons, thick, racists, stupid etc, coupled with the constant negative and gloomy predictions, turns the debate nasty.
To keep answering constant questions when they have been dealt with many times is tiresome, especially when the poster will not except a different view.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think you will find it has been answered, it doesnt necessarily follow that just because an answer does not agree with your answer to the same question that it didnt get answered.

In its one dimentional context its not much of a question anyway ...........................

It was eventually answered after a few diversions and a lot of waffle.

 

[Diego Napier]

Did that diatribe actually make any points,or are you Caroline Lucas practising your waffle on here?

Although I strongly defend human rights I do recognise the merits of alternate beliefs. Your posts for example present a consistent and compelling argument for euthanasia.

 

[ManOfSussex]

UK Economy grew 0.5% for the months after the vote, down from 0.7% for Q2 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467

 

[BigGully]

It was eventually answered after a few diversions and a lot of waffle.

Thats not fair, unfortunately you choose not read your own words, you want to associate the drop in its value to our future economic prospects due to Brexit, when actually it is partly due to Brexit through future uncertainties, it doesnt follow that its current level is any viable indicator to our economies future prospects.

You have said prior and since the referendum that you expect that the UK's economy will collapse, fall off a cliff and other emotive language and it just hasnt happened, you sit in Berlin offering tiresome judgements on us back in the UK whilst on your own doorstep you have your own poilitical and civil crisis.

You scavenge around for any perceived bad econimc data to prop up your view on an imminent UK collapse, our economy grew by 0.5% this quarter post Brexit, how did that happen, no doubt you will push your own forecasting further upstream yet again .......

 

[beorhthelm]

UK Economy grew 0.5% for the months after the vote, down from 0.7% for Q2 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467

so the same as Q3 2015, and above (sensible) forecasts of 0.3%. no doubt that will be spun negatively though.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

UK Economy grew 0.5% for the months after the vote, down from 0.7% for Q2 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467

The UK economy grew faster than expected in the three months after the Brexit vote, official figures have indicated.
The economy expanded by 0.5% in the July-to-September period, according to the Office for National Statistics.
That was slower than the 0.7% rate in the previous quarter, but stronger than analysts' estimates of 0.3%.
"There is little evidence of a pronounced effect in the immediate aftermath of the vote," the ONS said.
The economy was boosted by a strong performance from the services sector.
This is the first estimate of economic growth for the period, using less than half the data that will be used for the final estimate.

Think it's fair to say the treasury (and other 'experts') predictions of a Brexit induced short term recession are looking unlikely.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Many traditional Labour voters who would not vote UKIP and who do not want to be part of a federal Europe have been told by the Remainers that their views shouldn't count as they are stupid and racist.

On any subject, such as this one, where the figures are huge there are always going to be plenty of exceptions, but I can't help wondering if the claim that Labour Leave voters 'who would not vote UKIP' have been block-labelled racist is a bit of an urban myth, fuelled on occasions by feelings of victimhood. In all the conversations I have had with remainers I have heard the general term 'racist' used only once, and that was by an incandescent fellow dog-walker shortly after the result was known. Personally I know one, precisely one, person who voted out for racist reasons.

I agree with you about the muddying of left/right definitions. I may be wrong but I think that this little tributary to the debate began when I wondered out loud if large numbers of traditional Labour voters are no longer 'left' according to the traditional definition, and as a result the Labour Party might have a problem.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Exactly, stating that the 17million plus that voted Leave are morons, thick, racists, stupid etc, coupled with the constant negative and gloomy predictions, turns the debate nasty.

But no one has stated that - see above.

 

[BigGully]

The UK economy grew faster than expected in the three months after the Brexit vote, official figures have indicated.
The economy expanded by 0.5% in the July-to-September period, according to the Office for National Statistics.
That was slower than the 0.7% rate in the previous quarter, but stronger than analysts' estimates of 0.3%.
"There is little evidence of a pronounced effect in the immediate aftermath of the vote," the ONS said.
The economy was boosted by a strong performance from the services sector.
This is the first estimate of economic growth for the period, using less than half the data that will be used for the final estimate.

Think it's fair to say the treasury (and other 'experts') predictions of a Brexit induced short term recession are looking unlikely.

For me this doesnt automatically absolve us Brexiteers, just as the Remainers have used random snippets of current data trying to use this against us Brexiteers, this too is no more than a snapshot, although quite a good one for the UK.

However it does discredit those Remainers that said without reservation that we were immediately doomed post 23rd June 2016, it totally undermines their own credibility, no doubt.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

For me this doesnt automatically absolve us Brexiteers, just as the Remainers have used random snippets of current data trying to use this against us Brexiteers, this too is no more than a snapshot, although quite a good one for the UK.

However it does discredit those Remainers that said without reservation that we were immediately doomed post 23rd June 2016, it totally undermines their own credibility, no doubt.

It also undermines the credibility of those that have been saying our economy is a basketcase, in freefall ... the usual headless chicken nonsense.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

On any subject, such as this one, where the figures are huge there are always going to be plenty of exceptions, but I can't help wondering if the claim that Labour Leave voters 'who would not vote UKIP' have been block-labelled racist is a bit of an urban myth, fuelled on occasions by feelings of victimhood. In all the conversations I have had with remainers I have heard the general term 'racist' used only once, and that was by an incandescent fellow dog-walker shortly after the result was known. Personally I know one, precisely one, person who voted out for racist reasons.

I agree with you about the muddying of left/right definitions. I may be wrong but I think that this little tributary to the debate began when I wondered out loud if large numbers of traditional Labour voters are no longer 'left' according to the traditional definition, and as a result the Labour Party might have a problem.

As you say, it's difficult to generalise with such large numbers involved. I still hear the stupid/racist accusation/insinuation on radio talk shows. Doesn't bother me at all as I know where to find the off switch if needed. It is probably alienating to many people though.
We can agree ,I think, that the Labour vote may be irredeemably split. It is either as you say that many are simply not left wing
anymore. My alternative theory is that the new internationalist, middle class,pro EU Left just doesn't appeal to many working class people and probably never did.

 

[Two Professors]

Many foreign universities have courses in English. Especially in science, arts and engineering. Most foreign universities I am aware of do, and have to.

Well,what do you know?Wrong,yet again.Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian for engineering.

 

[BigGully]

Not one for cut n pastes nor ''experts'' come to that, however this from the FT is a comment on FACTS not forecasts so it would be silly to let this go ....

Joe Grice, chief economist at the ONS, said the data provided “the most comprehensive picture so far of the post-referendum UK economy. While quarterly growth has fallen slightly, the economy has continued to expand at a rate broadly similar to that seen since 2015 and there is little evidence of a pronounced effect in the immediate aftermath of the [Brexit] vote.”