[Politics] Brexit

[El Presidente]

spot on
usual suspects will pretend otherwise but still post how screwed we are.......allegedly......they simply cant help themselves with their negative outlook

Is it a negative outlook or concern that the pound is at a 31 year low against the dollar, the UK's credit rating has been downgraded, a double digit reduction in footfall at shops, a reduction in job adverts. All of which were predicted by the 'experts' that you sneer at?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Half the country talks us into recession?

Jesus ****ing Christ

Some of the Brexiters will blame the remainers for anything that happens.

To claim those who voted remain are somehow at fault for what we are seeing is incredible.

Thankfully I believe the new PM will not activate article 50.

 

[The Clamp]

There are some people that will never admit Leave was the wrong way to vote. Even in the face of the falling pound, falling property prices, rising inflation, soaring food prices, a rudderless government, people in limbo as to whether they will have a home here, people's livelihoods ruined or in peril, petrol prices going to go to an all time high.... They will still deny all this. One can't help but think their inability to look at things as they actually are may just be the reason they voted leave in the first place. I also believe the reason many of the are so appalled at the idea of the referendum being vetoed is not that we will stay in the EU but that it will highlight just how much they misunderstood the situation.
Yes, yes you WON, well done, I hope you enjoy your prize......if you ever get it.

 

[BadFish]

Patience it's only been a couple of weeks since the vote! Saying that (from a Brexit perspective) I note all the serious leadership contenders are signed up to ending EU free movement. I also know that at the next general election the UK politicians will have no excuses blaming the EU for their failings re immigration and other matters. Part of 'taking back control' is taking full responsibility and facing the consequences from the UK electorate.

So we wait for the next Tory government to be formed to stem the flow of migrants and pull the country out of the shit and improve things for both those living in poverty and the working man? I wish i had your confidence, I really do.

Out of interest are you happy with the way things are going thus far?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So we wait for the next Tory government to be formed to stem the flow of migrants and pull the country out of the shit and improve things for both those living in poverty and the working man? I wish i had your confidence, I really do.

Yes we wait and if they don't deliver we vote them out.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yes we wait and if they don't deliver we vote them out.

I would be interested to see if the Government ignored the result if that could happen with the different voting system in a GE.

 

[BadFish]

Yes we wait and if they don't deliver we vote them out.

I suppose one bonus is that they won't have the EU and immigrants to blame everything on.

 

[beorhthelm]

Is it a negative outlook or concern that the pound is at a 31 year low against the dollar, the UK's credit rating has been downgraded, a double digit reduction in footfall at shops, a reduction in job adverts. All of which were predicted by the 'experts' that you sneer at?

it is negative outlook to overstate claims, such as a credit rating downgrade which was really a outlook downgrade, or preempt other negative economic indicators which may not be officially reported yet. especially by those that know the subtle difference. we are seeing people talk us into trouble, rather then offering reassurance, highlighting every negative to reinforce the pre-vote claims. so remain were right, rather than saying "see, told you so, we're all going to die", might be better to try to turn the ship around. seems many want to be seen to be right than ignore the predictions and get on with resolving the situation and maybe being remembered for being wrong. lack of leadership doesn't help matters, but current situation is summed up in todays Matt cartoon: " in efforts to calm market, the Governor of the BoE will issue a scream".

 

[loz]

Have a look at the state of some of the banks in the EU. Italy for example, Its very convenient at the moment to blame and point at Brexit for all europs trouble but the EU needs to look at it own mess first.

Britain’s vote to leave the EU has produced dire predictions for the U.K. economy. The damage to the rest of Europe could be more immediate and potentially more serious. Nowhere is the risk concentrated more heavily than in the Italian banking sector. In Italy, 17% of banks’ loans are sour. That is nearly 10 times the level in the U.S., where, even at the worst of the 2008-09 financial crisis, it was only 5%. Among publicly traded banks in the eurozone, Italian lenders account for nearly half of total bad loans.



Years of lax lending standards left Italian banks ill-prepared when an economic slump sent bankruptcies soaring a few years ago. At one major bank, Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena SpA, bad loans were so thick it assigned a team of 700 to deal with them and created a new unit to house them. Several weeks ago, the bank put the bad-credit unit up for sale, hoping a foreign partner would speed the liquidation process


Link

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...veryone-finally-panicking-about-italian-banks

 

[BadFish]

As always, the newspapers and media are scaremongering with a campaign of fear; inducing hysteria to the public, not just in Britain, but much of the entire world... but it's all very ostensible.

This is a great opportunity for Britain to rediscover itself - it is an economically important nation which is blessed with creative and cultured peoples. It is always going to be significant despite the result, and indeed the quality of life here could well rise, especially if the exit is well managed and negotiated.

The irony is that the generation of renters, many of whom would have voted "remain", are likely to benefit from the exit the most.

For this to happen though it needs some strong and clear leadership with an idea of what is needed. I guess only time will tell if this is what is going to happen or if it will simply be more of the same without the support of the EU.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Yes we wait and if they don't deliver we vote them out.

To replace with whom?

 

[Baldseagull]

spot on
usual suspects will pretend otherwise but still post how screwed we are.......allegedly......they simply cant help themselves with their negative outlook

You are reminding me of The Life Of Brian scene where Eric Idle is whistling and singing "Always look on the bright side of life"

 

[Baldseagull]

Have a look at the state of some of the banks in the EU. Italy for example, Its very convenient at the moment to blame and point at Brexit for all europs trouble but the EU needs to look at it own mess first.

Britain’s vote to leave the EU has produced dire predictions for the U.K. economy. The damage to the rest of Europe could be more immediate and potentially more serious. Nowhere is the risk concentrated more heavily than in the Italian banking sector. In Italy, 17% of banks’ loans are sour. That is nearly 10 times the level in the U.S., where, even at the worst of the 2008-09 financial crisis, it was only 5%. Among publicly traded banks in the eurozone, Italian lenders account for nearly half of total bad loans.



Years of lax lending standards left Italian banks ill-prepared when an economic slump sent bankruptcies soaring a few years ago. At one major bank, Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena SpA, bad loans were so thick it assigned a team of 700 to deal with them and created a new unit to house them. Several weeks ago, the bank put the bad-credit unit up for sale, hoping a foreign partner would speed the liquidation process


Link

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...veryone-finally-panicking-about-italian-banks

Yep, what we have done is, as one of the most able shipwrights, jump off a rickety boat and kick a hole in it as we left, we may yet clamber back aboard, but have still done some serious damage to the vessel.

 

[Baldseagull]

it is negative outlook to overstate claims, such as a credit rating downgrade which was really a outlook downgrade, or preempt other negative economic indicators which may not be officially reported yet. especially by those that know the subtle difference. we are seeing people talk us into trouble, rather then offering reassurance, highlighting every negative to reinforce the pre-vote claims. so remain were right, rather than saying "see, told you so, we're all going to die", might be better to try to turn the ship around. seems many want to be seen to be right than ignore the predictions and get on with resolving the situation and maybe being remembered for being wrong. lack of leadership doesn't help matters, but current situation is summed up in todays Matt cartoon: " in efforts to calm market, the Governor of the BoE will issue a scream".

A credit rating downgrade results in immediate increased cost of borrowing, i.e. we now pay 1% more in interest payments on the billions of debt.
YES, we do need to turn the ship around, and stop sailing towards Brexit.

 

[Baldseagull]

Patience it's only been a couple of weeks since the vote! Saying that (from a Brexit perspective) I note all the serious leadership contenders are signed up to ending EU free movement. I also know that at the next general election the UK politicians will have no excuses blaming the EU for their failings re immigration and other matters. Part of 'taking back control' is taking full responsibility and facing the consequences from the UK electorate.

But they won't, they will blame you, because you voted for it.

 

[SK1NT]

I know you would,thats what makes you an idiot for describing people as little englanders because they have concerns about immigration,thats why your side lost because you are so far up your own arse of self importance you ignore people saying help.Its also why you lost because whilst you were patting each other on the back saying everything is fine people were saying this EU is not very democratic is it.......but good old you retreated to your ivory tower and decided to call everyone racist that wanted to leave

we have voted to leave the eu

makes you wonder doesn't it if you had not been such a moron

No mate you're the ****ing idiot if you think that exiting the EU is going to stop those "Foreigners".

1)If we want to trade with the EU (which we will need to) they have said they will only do it with free movement of people.

2) Farage and Johnson have already said that the referendum is NOT about immigration... can they back track anymore on all the BULLSH1T they spouted.

Most immigration is from outside of the EU and of the 0.5% from within the EU 98% pay taxes meaning they pay MUCH MORE into the government pot.

As i sit in my ivory tower i can see people are disgruntled with "their lot" however the rhetoric that it is because of blooding foreigners is ****ing wrong and shameful. Yes i can agree that the government have been neglecting the poor working class (mainly northern) however the EU has **** all to do it. In fact due to the recession that we are likely to hit bringing more years of austerity who the **** do you think will suffer? Yes you got it the people who voted Brexit. I'll be fine in my ivory tower mate.

 

[Baldseagull]

As always, the newspapers and media are scaremongering with a campaign of fear; inducing hysteria to the public, not just in Britain, but much of the entire world... but it's all very ostensible.

This is a great opportunity for Britain to rediscover itself - it is an economically important nation which is blessed with creative and cultured peoples. It is always going to be significant despite the result, and indeed the quality of life here could well rise, especially if the exit is well managed and negotiated.

The irony is that the generation of renters, many of whom would have voted "remain", are likely to benefit from the exit the most.

Unfortunately, 52% are Vince.

 

[SK1NT]

It's almost like some people are hoping/willing it goes tits up to justify their decision.

I remember reading articles last year suggesting the pound was overvalued and that it would or could drop to levels we see now or even lower.

spot on
usual suspects will pretend otherwise but still post how screwed we are.......allegedly......they simply cant help themselves with their negative outlook

Hoping/Willing it goes tits up... We haven't even triggered article 50 and yet things are going tits up. Why the **** do you divs not believe or listen to the experts? The economists, the head of the bank of england etc etc etc etc ... oh wait Gove doesn't like experts... Well you go and visit your postman when you're not feeling well..

 

[Jim in the West]

On the question of immigrants, a good article in the FT yesterday:

Have you ever noticed how supermarkets run out of fruit salads on sunny days when everyone decides they fancy a picnic? No? That’s because they rarely do. I never really thought about the mechanics behind this until I interviewed a man who supplied temp workers to a British company that made bagged salads and fruit pots. Demand would fluctuate according to the weather, but British weather is notoriously changeable and fresh products have a short shelf life. So the company would only finalise its order for the number of temps it required for the night shift at 4pm on the day. Workers on standby would receive text messages: “you’re on for tonight” or “you’re off”.
Most of this hyper-flexible workforce had come to the UK from Europe. “We wouldn’t eat without eastern Europeans,” the man from the temp agency said confidently. Was he right? Britain might be about to find out. Now that UK citizens have voted narrowly to leave the EU, the country’s immigration policy is in flux. Some want the UK to maintain the free movement of labour in exchange for access to the EU’s single market. But the leading candidates to replace David Cameron as prime minister have said any deal to leave the EU must involve control over future migration, since this was the promise made to Leave voters before the referendum.
There is talk of the country introducing an Australian-style points system that would admit high-skilled migrants such as engineers but stop low-paid migrants like salad-baggers. If that is the policy on the table, it is time for politicians, employers and the public to think seriously about how it would affect the economy.
EU nationals account for 31 per cent of the workers in food manufacturing, 21 per cent of those in hotels and other accommodation, 16 per cent of those in agriculture and 15 per cent of those in warehouses. While current migrants probably won’t be sent home, people who want to limit low-paid migration say this would result in more jobs for British people in future. Yet there are already plenty of jobs for British people. The proportion of UK nationals in work is at a near-record 74.4 per cent, higher than in 2004 when the “A8” eastern European countries joined the EU (which is when migration to the UK began to increase sharply). Torsten Bell, director of the Resolution Foundation think-tank, says the only significant pocket of unemployment left in Britain is among disabled people. “And we’re not about to send them out into the fields”.
There is also something about the nature of these jobs that makes them tough for UK nationals to do. These sectors usually require extreme flexibility from staff: the salad-baggers who wait for a text message to say they have work that night; the cleaners who cobble together piecemeal shifts at dusk and dawn; the fruit pickers living in caravans on farms. When people say “migrants are doing the jobs that Brits are too lazy to do”, they are missing the point. These jobs may be palatable if you are a single person who has come to the UK to earn money as a stepping stone to a better future. But if you live here permanently, have children here, claim benefits here, they are not jobs on which you can easily build a life. Farmers say one reason they cannot attract UK workers is the unwieldy benefit system: it does not make sense to do short-term, low-paid temp work that will wreak havoc with your benefit payments for weeks afterwards.
So employers deprived of access to flexible EU workers would face a choice. They could automate some work, but that would be tricky in sectors such as cleaning. They could stop expanding because they think they could not staff a new meat factory, say, or a new fruit farm. Or they could redesign the jobs to attract UK workers: more stable, less precarious, better paid. Some migrant workers have been pushing for these things already. The UK as a nation could have used regulation to help them. But until now, we seem to have accepted these jobs as they are in exchange for the cheap, convenient goods and services that depend on them. Low-paid migrants are visible, but many of the benefits they bring are invisible: the British strawberries in the shops, that salad on the shelf just when you want it, the office that is dirty when you leave at night but clean on your return. Perhaps we’ll only really know what we’ve got when it’s gone.

 

[Jim in the West]

it is negative outlook to overstate claims, such as a credit rating downgrade which was really a outlook downgrade, or preempt other negative economic indicators which may not be officially reported yet. especially by those that know the subtle difference. we are seeing people talk us into trouble, rather then offering reassurance, highlighting every negative to reinforce the pre-vote claims. so remain were right, rather than saying "see, told you so, we're all going to die", might be better to try to turn the ship around. seems many want to be seen to be right than ignore the predictions and get on with resolving the situation and maybe being remembered for being wrong. lack of leadership doesn't help matters, but current situation is summed up in todays Matt cartoon: " in efforts to calm market, the Governor of the BoE will issue a scream".

This is how things work though - the prosperity of the UK (the world, even) depends on sentiment. When people are optimistic, they invest, spend, create jobs, etc. The experts predicted that Brexit would cause a loss of confidence, and a recession. This is now well on the way to happening. You can't blame everyone for losing confidence and talking up a recession - it's exactrly what the vast, vast majority of economists predicted, and they were derided by the Brexit camp (and even compared to Nazi scientists by Gove).