[Politics] Brexit

[Seagull58]

Thus continuing the spiral of boom and bust and when it all blows over the richest people in the country own even more and the rich/poor gap widens, houses bought cheap by short sighted buyers are repossessed and the wealthy buy to let owners end up back on top because they could afford to Hoover up assets on this downturn. Which, unfortunately, is what got this country into an appalling state, not immigrants.

But as is the nature of all big decisions like this referendum, there will be winners and losers, happy and unhappy people. This was never going to suit everyone.

For every buyer there's a seller.

 

[Triggaaar]

• there will be no £350m a week for the NHS. Indeed there is likely to be no extra at all
• regional and education funding from the EU will not be replaced by a UK Brexit government
• There will be/can be little additional control on immigration
• There will be no enforced repatriation (for extremists out there)
• Any future trade agreements will be dependent on free movement (the Norway option)
• There will be no formal or informal negotiations with the EU prior to invoking Article 50
• We will not be immediately giving notice to leave the EU. Indeed we may never do so

Wrong.

 

[Hamilton]

It won't be on their reputation, the public effectively signed it, our leaders have no choice. They can choose when to sign it though, and on what terms - that's what will be on their reputation.

No right thinking politician will want their name at the bottom of that piece of paper. That's why Boris et al are now desperately looking for ways out of this whole debacle.

I'd imagine that Boris had hoped for a marginal Remain victory. Enough to mortally wound Dave and then he could step in. What he didn't expect was to be the one leading a divided country into the unknown.

 

[Baldseagull]

So far, and we are only a few days on, the Brexit camp has been corrected (by our still partners within the EU) or has reneged on the following pre-referendum promises (or if not promises then at least issues the electorate might have tacitly understood to be promises):

• there will be no £350m a week for the NHS. Indeed there is likely to be no extra at all
• regional and education funding from the EU will not be replaced by a UK Brexit government
• There will be/can be little additional control on immigration
• There will be no enforced repatriation (for extremists out there)
• Any future trade agreements will be dependent on free movement (the Norway option)
• There will be no formal or informal negotiations with the EU prior to invoking Article 50
• We will not be immediately giving notice to leave the EU. Indeed we may never do so

Am I alone in wondering what is left that people voted Leave for!!??

Apparently we get our country back, the 1970's version, complete with racial abuse of anyone foreign looking.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's why Boris et al are now desperately looking for ways out of this whole debacle.

What has he actually said / done to show that he doesn't want to be the next leader?

 

[Hamilton]

I don't like him going over there and insulting them when we need to engender goodwill, but that doesn't mean he's wrong

Farage just adds more shame to our country. The man can't even be civil in victory. He is a disgrace to Britain. Why would anyone in the EU look upon us favourably after listening to him.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36648664

 

[GT49er]

No politician really wants to sign it do they.

Of course they don't. They're nearly all (400+ out of 600) Europhiles, some fanatically so. If Cameron was a politician worth his salt, he would sign it himself, having called the referendum himself and swearing blind it was binding and final (which he did - it was one of his threats which he hoped would scare people into voting to remain). He won't sign it though, because he's a gutless politician who is quite happy to renege on his promises.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You know, if we get right out of it, leave voters will still be blaming the E.U. for the shit we find ourselves in. They will claim the E.U. is being spiteful for not letting us have everything we want.

I'm sure you are right. There will also be equally over dramatic claims made by the other side in terms of fault. The fact is people often make up their minds then jump all over whatever fact will shore up their view. Sensible discussion will be the casualty as always in this leap towards extreme positions whether pro or anti Brexit. Too often the whole thing is like watching a football match with a partisan crowd...just very little entertainment.

 

[c0lz]

United Kingdom’s Top Import Partners. JUNE 22, 2016

Angela Merkel must be nervous to any outcome.

United States: US$66.5 billion (14.5% of total UK exports)
Germany: $46.4 billion (10.1%)
Switzerland: $32.2 billion (7%)
China: $27.4 billion (5.9%)
France: $27 billion (5.9%)
Netherlands: $26.6 billion (5.8%)
Ireland: $25.5 billion (5.5%)
Belgium: $17.8 billion (3.9%)
Spain: $13.1 billion (2.8%)
Italy: $12.9 billion (2.8%)
United Arab Emirates: $10.3 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $9.6 billion (2.1%)
South Korea: $7 billion (1.5%)
Saudi Arabia: $6.7 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.6 billion (1.4%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

 

[severnside gull]

Wrong.

Unfortunately not

 

[ManOfSussex]

Apparently we get our country back, the 1970's version, complete with racial abuse of anyone foreign looking.

Will a remake of 'Till Death Us Do Part' be on TV? The views of Alf Garnett are certainly alive and well out there in our United Kingdom today.

 

[Hamilton]

Of course they don't. They're nearly all (400+ out of 600) Europhiles, some fanatically so. If Cameron was a politician worth his salt, he would sign it himself, having called the referendum himself and swearing blind it was binding and final (which he did - it was one of his threats which he hoped would scare people into voting to remain). He won't sign it though, because he's a gutless politician who is quite happy to renege on his promises.

Do you think there's a reason all of these democratically elected MPs don't want to trigger Article 50?

Do you think there's something in their experience of government that makes them think that signing it would not be in Britain's interest?

I'm interest in what the facts were that swayed it for you? What was it that you saw that these incredibly bright people that we have elected do not see?

 

[tinycowboy]

They wouldn't be asking just those in favour of leaving though, would they? They would be asking the whole population again. Pointless exercise. The Brexit campaign laid out their position. That should be the starting point for negotiations.

Agreed - last thing we need is another referendum. But I'm not sure what policies the Government should feel obliged to pursue post-referendum - the Vote Leave manifesto, or the Leave.EU campaign, or both? I suppose the people will judge them at the next General Election if they don't like it.

 

[beorhthelm]

What has become very clear over the last few days is that there wasn't, and still isn't, a clear plan regarding triggering Article 50 and what will happen next. There was an interview with one of the Tory Remain camp on the Today programme this morning that I caught half of (so not sure which one it was). However, one answer was revealing. Asked why there was no plan from government for this eventuality the answer came back that the government was campaigning to remain and it was the Leave campaign who needed an exit strategy.

A little disingenuous given it is it the government's duty to govern but the points seems to tie up with that Guardian article that was going round Remainers Facebook pages yesterday; Cameron has stitched up BoJo a treat.

i dont see it as disingenuous at all. seems quite rational that those on the remain side wouldnt want to get involved in the detail of something they dont want to do. and it runs counter to the "stitched up Boris" theory, as Cameron could have announced resignation and the next breath invoked article 50, sending everyone off on a track while jumping from the train. it was widely commented in the weeks immediatly before the vote, when Leave looked a bit likely, that not only is the referendum non-binding but would need an act of parliament to invoke article 50, its not in the power of the PM alone to break the existing treaty(s). so in fairness there was always going to be delay, and it was only ever Cameron who suggested otherwise, as a counter to the argument there would be delay after the vote (Leavers arent the only one back peddling).

 

[severnside gull]

Apparently we get our country back, the 1970's version, complete with racial abuse of anyone foreign looking.

Ah but not if we decline to actually invoke Article 50 as dear old befuddled Boris seems to be hinting in his latest Telegraph article (albeit his apologists have explained that he was tired when he wrote it)

 

[Triggaaar]

Unfortunately not

There will be no formal or informal negotiations with the EU prior to invoking Article 50

We are already in negotiations with Merkel. Where do you get the idea we're not?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Agreed - last thing we need is another referendum. But I'm not sure what policies the Government should feel obliged to pursue post-referendum - the Vote Leave manifesto, or the Leave.EU campaign, or both? I suppose the people will judge them at the next General Election if they don't like it.

If we leave the free market, we can always vote in a Government at the next election who'll join us up to it.

 

[Seagull58]

United Kingdom’s Top Import Partners. JUNE 22, 2016

Angela Merkel must be nervous to any outcome.

United States: US$66.5 billion (14.5% of total UK exports)
Germany: $46.4 billion (10.1%)
Switzerland: $32.2 billion (7%)
China: $27.4 billion (5.9%)
France: $27 billion (5.9%)
Netherlands: $26.6 billion (5.8%)
Ireland: $25.5 billion (5.5%)
Belgium: $17.8 billion (3.9%)
Spain: $13.1 billion (2.8%)
Italy: $12.9 billion (2.8%)
United Arab Emirates: $10.3 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $9.6 billion (2.1%)
South Korea: $7 billion (1.5%)
Saudi Arabia: $6.7 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.6 billion (1.4%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

That is why Merkel is talking and behaving like a grown up, unlike the eurocrat tinpot dictators Juncker and Schmidt.

 

[Baldseagull]

United Kingdom’s Top Import Partners. JUNE 22, 2016

Angela Merkel must be nervous to any outcome.

United States: US$66.5 billion (14.5% of total UK exports)
Germany: $46.4 billion (10.1%)
Switzerland: $32.2 billion (7%)
China: $27.4 billion (5.9%)
France: $27 billion (5.9%)
Netherlands: $26.6 billion (5.8%)
Ireland: $25.5 billion (5.5%)
Belgium: $17.8 billion (3.9%)
Spain: $13.1 billion (2.8%)
Italy: $12.9 billion (2.8%)
United Arab Emirates: $10.3 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $9.6 billion (2.1%)
South Korea: $7 billion (1.5%)
Saudi Arabia: $6.7 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.6 billion (1.4%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

Yep, this is bad for other countries too, it is not just ourselves we have hobbled, and yet somehow we hope to get preferential treatment in the divorce.

 

[East Preston Gull]

Will a remake of 'Till Death Us Do Part' be on TV? The views of Alf Garnett are certainly alive and well out there in our United Kingdom today.

We could on the other hand go back to a time, the good old days some would say, when one country held power over other nation states and ruled them from a central government. We could call it a fancy name like U.S.S.R or something like that. We could imagine that one of them finally broke away, swifty followed by others. Walls came down to much rejoicing around the world. Then this could be heralded as a golden age of trade and friendship.

History tells us that political unions of separate nation states do not and will not ever work. Freedom, friendship and trade is the future.

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