[Politics] Brexit

[fat old seagull]

I don't like him going over there and insulting them when we need to engender goodwill, but that doesn't mean he's wrong

Granted....but a bit like telling your neighbour she's ugly, and got a big bum!

 

[Hamilton]

So long as somebody DOES sign article 50. If left to the politicians in Westminster, they'll probably vote against anybody ever doing it!

No politician really wants to sign it do they. Any politician worth their salt won't want that stain on their reputation. You'd have to get some nutter like Bill Cash to be PM. Boris won't want to sign it - especially as he is 'push comes to shove' pro-EU.

 

[Seagull58]

No No NO Triggaaaar, my old China, they are saying push the button, then we talk. No pre-negotiation negotiations. I fear this will mean another referendum, The Mickey Flannagan Referendum, where we decide if we want to be out out, or just out. We can choose to be in a shitty nightclub in our slippers, holding a pint of milk, or outside the shitty nightclub scrapping with the bouncers all night cos we dont want to pay to get in.

That is NOT what Merkel and Hollande are saying. The pre-negotiation negotiations started on Sunday when Cameron spoke to both of them and they are continuing today. What Juncker, Schmidt and a couple of pissed off foreign ministers want is not necessarily what they will get, despite their successes in the past at pushing through their grand political integration scheme.

 

[Baldseagull]

Italian banks were always on a knife-edge. The Italian government has been saying it may have to prop up the banks for about 2 years. Our Brexit has done no more than bring that forward. South Korea is doing something similar with its finance sector.

There are a few businesses and country's using us as the excuse at the moment to shift blame.

The Greece melt down around September will no doubt be our fault as well, and nothing to do with the Mafia cartel EU and their desire to submit them into behaving.

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Yes, there were problems not of our making around. But no one will thank us for making them worse.

 

[beorhthelm]

No No NO Triggaaaar, my old China, they are saying push the button, then we talk. No pre-negotiation negotiations. I fear this will mean another referendum, The Mickey Flannagan Referendum, where we decide if we want to be out out, or just out.

though i reckon Cameron will be doing a sly pre-negotiation with Merkel on the trip. they can be seen to have anything discussed now they've taken their line, in the background anything can happen, its the European way.

 

[Baldseagull]

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif]Getting out just in time,

EU looking to fast track its SUPERSTATE idea before anyone else jumps ship.

[/FONT]​http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ies-one-control-members-armies-economies.html

Cameron had just secured agreement that we would not be dragged into that.

 

[Seagull58]

Yes, I'm sure they know all about him. I can only speak for myself, and when or if, I was personally insulted it does affect me, and my responses. Even in the knowledge I might be dealing with a nutter. Let's face it he virtually called the EU a bunch of crooks!

He didn't lie then.

 

[Seagull58]

No politician really wants to sign it do they. Any politician worth their salt won't want that stain on their reputation. You'd have to get some nutter like Bill Cash to be PM. Boris won't want to sign it - especially as he is 'push comes to shove' pro-EU.

Corbyn or Skinner would sign it today if they got the chance.

 

[Hamilton]

Corbyn or Skinner would sign it today if they got the chance.

I did say "Any politician worth their salt"

 

[symyjym]

Yes, I'm sure they know all about him. I can only speak for myself, and when or if, I was personally insulted it does affect me, and my responses. Even in the knowledge I might be dealing with a nutter. Let's face it he virtually called the EU a bunch of crooks!

Yep he certainly did that. It was funny though, in a very uncomfortable way.

He was met with groans and awkward laughter with an added sense of irony due to our embarrassing and weak performance in the Euro’s last night.

 

[tinycowboy]

What do Brexiters think of Jeremy Hunt's idea of a second referendum to clarify what those in favour of leaving the EU actually want to happen?

 

[Hamilton]

Cameron had just secured agreement that we would not be dragged into that.

There is absolutely no point in telling Leavers that. They don't want to listen to what is true. They didn't want to listen to the fact that we don't send the EU £350m a week; they didn't want to listen to the fact that Turkey will not be fast-tracked into the EU; they didn't want to listen to the fact that our economy would shrink. Leavers - led by the media who love stoking up a story regardless of the damage - are not interested in anything but their view of the world.

The problem Remainers faced was that we see the EU as imperfect, but as John Oliver stated last week, we'd be batshit crazy to leave. Unfortunately, there are too many people in this country that are batshit crazy.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Yep he certainly did that. It was funny though, in a very uncomfortable way.

He was met with groans and awkward laughter with an added sense of irony due to our embarrassing and weak performance in the Euro’s last night.

Perhaps they could see the irony of the public school educated son of a stockbroker who traded a few commodities before a life in politics telling them they hadn't done a days work in their lives!?

 

[The Clamp]

What's happening is that smart money is buying quality assets that are much cheaper than they were last Thursday.

Thus continuing the spiral of boom and bust and when it all blows over the richest people in the country own even more and the rich/poor gap widens, houses bought cheap by short sighted buyers are repossessed and the wealthy buy to let owners end up back on top because they could afford to Hoover up assets on this downturn. Which, unfortunately, is what got this country into an appalling state, not immigrants.

But as is the nature of all big decisions like this referendum, there will be winners and losers, happy and unhappy people. This was never going to suit everyone.

 

[Seagull58]

What do Brexiters think of Jeremy Hunt's idea of a second referendum to clarify what those in favour of leaving the EU actually want to happen?

They wouldn't be asking just those in favour of leaving though, would they? They would be asking the whole population again. Pointless exercise. The Brexit campaign laid out their position. That should be the starting point for negotiations.

 

[East Preston Gull]

I don't like him going over there and insulting them when we need to engender goodwill, but that doesn't mean he's wrong

And that's the problem with the place.
Hundreds of nobody's shouting down each other. They will go and vote to hit Britain hard with tariffs, take that to the next bloated level of commissioners, they will agree and take that decision to Juncker and the commies. That level of Pen pushers will rubber stamp it, pass the law and Merkel will say...hang on a minute, that's not good for Germany.

Good riddance to all of them.

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[severnside gull]

They wouldn't be asking just those in favour of leaving though, would they? They would be asking the whole population again. Pointless exercise. The Brexit campaign laid out their position. That should be the starting point for negotiations.

So far, and we are only a few days on, the Brexit camp has been corrected (by our still partners within the EU) or has reneged on the following pre-referendum promises (or if not promises then at least issues the electorate might have tacitly understood to be promises):

• there will be no £350m a week for the NHS. Indeed there is likely to be no extra at all
• regional and education funding from the EU will not be replaced by a UK Brexit government
• There will be/can be little additional control on immigration
• There will be no enforced repatriation (for extremists out there)
• Any future trade agreements will be dependent on free movement (the Norway option)
• There will be no formal or informal negotiations with the EU prior to invoking Article 50
• We will not be immediately giving notice to leave the EU. Indeed we may never do so

Am I alone in wondering what is left that people voted Leave for!!??

 

[Triggaaar]

No politician really wants to sign it do they. Any politician worth their salt won't want that stain on their reputation.

It won't be on their reputation, the public effectively signed it, our leaders have no choice. They can choose when to sign it though, and on what terms - that's what will be on their reputation.

 

[Guinness Boy]

What has become very clear over the last few days is that there wasn't, and still isn't, a clear plan regarding triggering Article 50 and what will happen next. There was an interview with one of the Tory Remain camp on the Today programme this morning that I caught half of (so not sure which one it was). However, one answer was revealing. Asked why there was no plan from government for this eventuality the answer came back that the government was campaigning to remain and it was the Leave campaign who needed an exit strategy.

A little disingenuous given it is it the government's duty to govern but the points seems to tie up with that Guardian article that was going round Remainers Facebook pages yesterday; Cameron has stitched up BoJo a treat.

I strongly suspect Boris is more pro EU than he let on in the campaign and was hoping for a slight majority the other way - small enough so that Cameron's exit would still be speeded up but without all that messy sorting out the exit and dealing with the damned devolved parliaments nonsense. Now, it's clear that the last act of the Cameron camp will be to make the new leader trigger Article 50 and negotiate exit terms.

The risk inherent in that is obvious - concede too much power to Brussels and we won't get anywhere near the promises made on immigration and contributions. Awkward questions at election time if Labour ever sorts itself out (which is why they're stabbing Corbyn right now). Take away our dependence all together and risk economic turmoil just before an election (ditto Labour need to sort themselves out to capatalise). Go all the way and join the EEA as commentators such as Paul Mason have done today and we might as well never have bothered wasting all that money on a referendum in the first place.

It's a mess caused entirely by a Game of Tory Thrones.

 

[Baldseagull]

You know, if we get right out of it, leave voters will still be blaming the E.U. for the shit we find ourselves in. They will claim the E.U. is being spiteful for not letting us have everything we want.