[Politics] Brexit

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

But we already were that. This is what I don't understand. We were part of the EU but also a country in our right. It's not like we were part of the old communist bloc or something.

The EU were issuing more and more directives exactly as if they issuing diktats from The Kremlin. That all stops now.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There was nothing on the ballot paper about ending free movement though.

It was simply remain in or leave the EU.

Everything else is details for Parliament / exit negotiations or even another referendum.

True but the comments I quoted are one of the few definitive promises made by the Leave side made by people who will be central players in the exit negotiations. One of them possibly even the new PM.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Cool. nothing has happened, got it.

Let's see which of us is proven to be right in the years to come. Will it be you, and your merry band of BNP/Britain First supports, the intellectual Keith Chegwin/David Icke, the gun loving Donald Trump, or serial NHS privatisation proponent Michael Gove, or me - with Stephen Hawking, all living Prime Ministers of the UK, the leaders of Labour, Conservatives, Green Party and the Liberal Democrats, the Governor of the Bank of England, the IMF and U.S. President Barack Obama on my side. Going to be interesting, certainly.

Either way, chuffed to hear £350million a week is going to the NHS. The next time I visit AE I'm expecting a marble floored entrance, grecian statues adorning every corner, and a couple of original Botticelli's on the wall.

They deal with certainties, a lot were opposed to Brexit because it creates a massive uncertainty and therefore makes it hard to predict the future (there was a video with someone from Liverpool Uni who was also involved with legal issues too which covered a lot of this and these reasons were part of why he wanted people to vote remain)

It's the length of time it will take to make new agreements, (trade, labour, etc) it's the time it will take to go through all the existing legislation and alter it to edit / remove / replace the existing rules which have European influence or are connected with membership to the EU, etc.... and how this workload will put pressure on those to get it done in the short space of time we will have before our exit (2 year notice period)

There is also hose that would have benefited by our continual membership, we pay in a big part of the costs to run the EU (£350m in £190m out = £160m to help fund the running of the EU) are they going to want to lose that income by agreeing we are better off out? They don't want others following our lead either and also leaving when they are trying to build their vision or Europe (even if that's not what the majority of people in some countries within the EU want for their country)

re: £350m to the NHS, the leave campaign can't spend this money anywhere, they haven't come to power as a result of this referendum, that's down to the result of a General Election, but it does give a loud message as to where the British public want to see money spent and make it harder for politicians to ignore - You also have at least 2 years before we leave, so for those 2 years we will still be paying the EU £350m a week and getting back £190m a week until we finally go

Some Business leaders will have been against because they don't know how it is going to affect that business, they don't know if their markets will grow or disappear and the leave vote as led to a period of time whilst negotiations are to be carried out which doesn't help businesses know what will happen and whether they are better of staying in the UK or relocating to another EU country

 

[Soulman]

People saying they are emigrating to Australia...

Which is a free and sovereign country... Which is what you voted against... Irony?

 

[pb21]

Fair do's Notters. Sorry, I thought taking the pi*s.

Quite, but as [MENTION=1320]Notters[/MENTION] says he wasn't, it's a sorry state of affairs.

 

[cirC]

Democracy is a wonderful thing until it works against what you wanted. The remainers are venting their fury by reverting to an elitist viewpoint.

To be fair, we would be doing the same if the vote had gone the other way albeit with "less" commas and full stops.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[JC Footy Genius]

People saying they are emigrating to Australia...

Which is a free and sovereign country... Which is what you voted against... Irony?

With a points based immigration system

 

[Triggaaar]

One of the reasons it was set up was to to stop Europe ripping it up a third time.

Seems to have worked quite well don't you think?

Not why the EU was set up, no.

 

[happypig]

I saw a woman from Yorkshire who said "The EU's done nothing for us". The interviewer said "What about al the EU money that was given for urban regenreation after the pits closed? ". She looked blank for a few moments then banged her chest as said "I want my country back"

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Democracy is great because it's FAIR like it or not. What makes you feel you know the future then
I am not a massive risk taker but I am a calculated risk taker and IMO this is calculated.
You can stick around and fight or just keep feeling sorry for yourself and you not even been through tough times. You unfortunately are one of what I would call the fluffy brigade, time to dig deep and become a man. Sorry to patronise but that's my belief.

In terms of the future, it is a risk. I think it's a massive risk but, even without knowing the future, it is a risk. In all honesty, whatever your decision was based on, I think a lot of people decided based on xenophobia and the lies of leave (e.g. the £350 million a week which ignores all rebate we get and that this money would go on the NHS). The media was also biased against the EU on the whole so there was never a fair debate.

As for sticking around, I won't be leaving this country and I genuinely hope we don't come to regret it. However, I can't see that happening and I'm really angry (partly at the remain campaign for such a negative campaign, partly to the leave campaign for this lies they told and finally at the British public who I genuinely believe allowed themselves to be conned by the lies and anti EU sentiment).

As for the last two sentences, it demeans any of the rest of your posts. As you say earlier, we have very different perspectives (and not just this as we do on the Albion historically too judging by your posts on here) so we're never going to agree on this.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The agenda for this term of office has just been irrecovably changed. This government were not elected with a mandate to exit Europe, and have not been preparing to do so.

We will soon find ourselves with an unelected PM negotiating terms we know little about. I strongly doubt that Johnson or Gove are well equipped to meet this challenge.

We don't yet have a clear view on what happens next. A Tory leadership battle in October.. Bojo fudging on when the timeline should start. Hannan and Farage welching on referendum promises already.....

Even when we do decide to start the process, it will take two years to agree terms.
The ongoing uncertainty will not be beneficial to our economy. This is not just the market reacting badly to an unexpected result.
This market uncertainty is going to be around for a while. A recession seems highly likely to me.

Again they don't have any power to do these things,that would be down to the Government of the day to decide and the electorate can influence that (but couldn't as a part of the EU) - People are confusing a referendum with an election

They are stating that by exiting we could determine where we spend the money we currently pay the EU to be members and it could be used to provide extra NHS funding instead. (plus we don't stop paying until after we have left which will take at least 2 years) but we may end up having to pay for access to European markets so this figure may reduce anyway

 

[Finchley Seagull]

The EU were issuing more and more directives exactly as if they issuing diktats from The Kremlin. That all stops now.

IF you believe the right wing media spin, that's probably true. I don't agree.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

We will end the ‘free movement’ of people from the EU and take back control. We will introduce a points-based system under which migrants will be admitted to the UK on the basis of their skills, not their passport.

Statement made by Michael Gove and Boris Johnson during the campaign.

Going back on that would be political and electoral suicide which is why it won't happen. Free movement will not continue.

I think it has already become clear that referendum pledges were meaningless.
The people making them, have not formed a government and therefore have no ability to act on them.
There is no £350 million a week to give to the NHS and Hannan has already said that free movement of labour is likely to stay the same.

The end game for these Tories was exiting Europe.
The immigration pledge was the means to achieving this.

Political suicide or not, The end game has been achieved. There is no need for them to honour their promises.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

IF you believe the right wing media spin, that's probably true. I don't agree.

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree then.

 

[Diego Napier]

"Whereas 30 years ago a builder, bus driver and shop keeper etc could buy a house and provide for their family - now they can not. This despite all the advances we have seen and the rising income this country has had. We have become the 'have yaughts' and the the 'have nots'. Trickle down economics has not worked. Brexit happened because of the last 30 years and not the last 30 days."

And that has far more to do with priorities directly under successive British government control than anything to do with the EU. The lack of house building has been lamentable and what there has been has lined the pockets of the major house building firms and been delivered at inflated prices through poor government control. There's been virtually no effort to supply affordable starter homes. Council housing stock was sold off in the 80's along with central government incentives for local authorities to build and maintain new housing. As a result people under local authority support have been housed in private rented accommodation which has encouraged a huge growth in landlords buying up housing stock and squeezing the supply for house buyers so driving up prices.

That was nothing to do with the EU.

You mention "trickle-down" economics hasn't worked. The last 2 Governments have encouraged people from overseas to buy British citizenship for two million quid (Tier 1 Investor) with the intention of encouraging them to this country and thereby spreading their wealth around. The reality is that many thousands of overseas million & billionaires have bought high end properties, usually in London, that are mostly left empty. The result, virtually no benefit to the local community, absentee owners sitting on swiftly appreciating fortunes and the wrong kind of trickle-down for those people down-ladder who see "ordinary" house prices soaring.

That's nothing to do with the EU. It's all about the political will of the British government.

 

[Chicken Run]

Like any divorce the short term is perilous and an unnerving to say the very least ! However with time and the right expert representation the separation will slowly improve and I believe in the long run our children may well actually thank us for having the courage to step away from the troubled relationship. Btw hope there was enough commas?

 

[Gabbafella]

I'm in Corfu at the moment, I've spoken to plenty of people here and every single one has said the same thing, they think us leaving the EU is a bad thing because of our bail out money. There is no other reason that people here can focus on.
We have been a total soft touch, always handing out cash and benefits to foreigners before assisting our own.
I'm as happy as a pig in shit that we're out and the Greeks agree that in our position they'd have voted out too.

 

[clippedgull]

!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I don't think he was just saying they will restore them 'if' they get into power, he was claiming that they would stop it happening in the first place, which, he doesn't actually have any power to do.

But it could become an election promise should they be lost which might win votes for parties pledging to do that

But don't worry, even though Corbyn fails to protect them, we'll undoubtedly have a load of online petitions appearing calling for the Government to stand down, etc that we already get non stop from some Labour supporters anyway (you know the ones, we lost an election and our views, although in a minority should be the ones implemented rather than going along with the electorates decision when they gave a majority to those in power, ie a no confidence motion and should be made to call another election because your not the party i voted for (3 minutes after the general election result))

 

[Triggaaar]

It's like saying we will carry on playing a football match when the whistle has blown because the losing team don't like the result.

Start a petition, I'll sign it!