[Politics] Brexit

[Aveacarlin']

Well, 50.1 was enough to justify this chaos. 1.5 million votes and 4% is a pretty big margin in the context of a 2 horse race. As a separate point, all this bollox about young voters gets up my nose. Why exactly is some snot nosed 18 year olds opinion more valid than someone in their middle ages? Yeah, yeah I get their life expectancy is longer but I was a complete bell end at that age. To suggest we weigh their votes proportionally is almost laughable.

Blame Cameron for the pledge in the 1st place. Betting your career on the general public just to shut up the right wing of your party didn't need captain hindsight to tell you it was a bad idea.

It's a good point you make. And the bit about being a bellend at that age made me laugh. I related to that.

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[Billy the Fish]

Just sad that the leave voters represent a much greater proportion of the poorly educated than the remain, so those with the ability to do anything about this mess want nothing to do with it.

That's a disgusting attitude

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Parliament can be told to have as many debates as it likes, but it won't change the result. Like it or not (and I don't), we are stuck with this and will somehow have to make the best of it - although I haven't the faintest idea how.

I do think that there will be at least two years of near total uncertainty as whoever becomes the government tries to get out of the mess that the referendum has created. If the Brexit side has a proper plan or strategy for exit, its been kept very quiet so far - otherwise why the proposed delay in instigating the Article 50 break clause? Now they have won, what will they do with the victory? Pictures of Spitfires (which ironically flew in an era when we were inextricably tied to a European balance of power ideal) aren't enough.

 

[East Preston Gull]

To be fair a free press is an intrinsic part of a democracy. We often measure freedom partly by how free a press a country has. Look at China and also the concerns being raised by journalists in Turkey. There is no real measure of this supposed influence that the press have over voting intentions, indeed it may be the reverse ie newspapers follow the views of their readership for commercial reasons. There does seem to be a bit of a pattern though of those that lose elections claiming it wasn't a fair election because of the press. The Right makes these accusations against the BBC and the Left against the Murdoch press. Its probably better to not engage in this type of thing and instead go out and win the debate.

Sunderland and Swindon with a giant car industry decided, in spite of threats,to risk their jobs to vote Leave. They would have looked at the pros and cons. This shows the working man and woman has a knowledge and courage that the intellects will never get.

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[JC Footy Genius]

At least two years....

In a few months we will have a new PM and cabinet who will have to set out their goals including the red lines which will include ending EU free movement IMO.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

No idea - other than we need to be able to afford to buy a paddle, because we are completely up shit creek at the moment.

 

[clapham_gull]

How much of the fish we catch in the country is actually eaten here ?

Every time I watch a programme on it the fisherman are complaining that much ends on the plate of customers in the EU ?

 

[Diego Napier]

I haven't heard anyone saying that. But we couldn't decide on immigration numbers, we can now. Our Parliament and courts were not the supreme authority in our country. Now they are. Our representitives were not in charge of our trade policy and negotiations. Now they are. Etc.

So they haven't said it like that but imply it by saying we've "regained our sovereignty". I want to know why people think their lives will change for the better. I suspect that the vast majority of the population will notice very little difference. Moody's downgrading will mean that it will cost more to fund Britain's already unwieldy £1.6 trillion debt but how the man in the street pays for it will be down to political choices. The weakness of the £ will probably mean more expensive foreign holidays along with foreign goods. Will the price of good produced in this country stay same? Will the City of London remain at the centre of world finance? Will people around the fringes of society benefit or suffer more than they already do?

I admire peoples optimism but the idea that we're suddenly going to work harder and become as productive as China or India (or even Germany or France or Spain) and increase our innovation and manufacturing output and find new and better trading relationships and become as wealthy as Norway seems all rather romantic to me. Why didn't we do it before? The EU shackles weren't that heavy.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

In a few months we will have a new PM and cabinet who will have to set out their goals including the red lines which will include ending EU free movement IMO.

But nothing changes for at least two years. Red lines or not.

 

[East Preston Gull]

The difference is, you just made all those up.

If I could be bothered to hunt them down I would post them on here. These were genuine twitter conversations I witnessed between remainers and Leavers. Both sides have their own special brand of numptys.

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[pastafarian]

And that has far more to do with priorities directly under successive British government control than anything to do with the EU. The lack of house building has been lamentable and what there has been has lined the pockets of the major house building firms and been delivered at inflated prices through poor government control. There's been virtually no effort to supply affordable starter homes. Council housing stock was sold off in the 80's along with central government incentives for local authorities to build and maintain new housing. As a result people under local authority support have been housed in private rented accommodation which has encouraged a huge growth in landlords buying up housing stock and squeezing the supply for house buyers so driving up prices.

That was nothing to do with the EU.

You mention "trickle-down" economics hasn't worked. The last 2 Governments have encouraged people from overseas to buy British citizenship for two million quid (Tier 1 Investor) with the intention of encouraging them to this country and thereby spreading their wealth around. The reality is that many thousands of overseas million & billionaires have bought high end properties, usually in London, that are mostly left empty. The result, virtually no benefit to the local community, absentee owners sitting on swiftly appreciating fortunes and the wrong kind of trickle-down for those people down-ladder who see "ordinary" house prices soaring.

That's nothing to do with the EU. It's all about the political will of the British government.

its not buying citizenship for 2 million quid though is it
youve twisted the facts a bit to suit.

the investor visa is valid for 3 1/4 years (extendable for extra 2 years max)
can apply to settle after 2 years if you invest £10 million
can apply to settle after 3 years if you invest £5 million

cant invest in companies mainly engaged in property investment, property management or property development

These people invest in UK government bonds, share capital or loan capital in active and trading UK registered companies.
I thought this was a good thing and welcomed.........now you are turning on them as well.

I do agree the individuals simply buying a property to sit on leaving empty is a problem and they should be taxed until their balls fall off.....however dont confuse them with genuine investors which we should all welcome

 

[Garage_Doors]

Will we be able to refer to corner shops and oriental take away's in the old fashioned way as well?

 

[Hillian1]

I saw a woman from Yorkshire who said "The EU's done nothing for us". The interviewer said "What about al the EU money that was given for urban regenreation after the pits closed? ". She looked blank for a few moments then banged her chest as said "I want my country back"

Ironically, council leaders in Yorkshire have seeked assurance from government over the 600 million pound EU funding due to be received to regenerate the region's economy.

Uhm, not sure you understand this properly, we voted out.

 

[pastafarian]

But nothing changes for at least two years. Red lines or not.

wont we just have to wait and see how long it takes.

day 2 and UK's European Commissioner resigns.......moving along swiftly already

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But nothing changes for at least two years. Red lines or not.

Agreed nothing changes re immigration policy until an agreement is reached.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Will we be able to refer to corner shops and oriental take away's in the old fashioned way as well?

As the future is a future, or back to the future, free of political correctness gone completely mad, I'd say it'd be a distinct possibility if someone wanted to.

 

[El Presidente]

It's a genuinely tricky one. As someone who has been through a divorce when the other party doesn't want you to leave it will be slow, messy, costly and unpleasant, with neither party being better off financially.


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[mona]

Sunderland and Swindon with a giant car industry decided, in spite of threats,to risk their jobs to vote Leave. They would have looked at the pros and cons. This shows the working man and woman has a knowledge and courage that the intellects will never get.

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And Derby also. They certainly showed courage and self sacrifice. I don't think knowledge came into it. I hope they don't whinge when their jobs are moved east with EU grants.

 

[East Preston Gull]

I saw a woman from Yorkshire who said "The EU's done nothing for us". The interviewer said "What about al the EU money that was given for urban regenreation after the pits closed? ". She looked blank for a few moments then banged her chest as said "I want my country back"

I find this EU grants thing annoying. People are basically loving life under a system of bribes to make them believe the EU is wonderful.

Britain pays billions to the EU and we should be grateful that they kindly build a sculpture, choose a city to be city of culture and bulldoze buildings of historical National interest and build us a few lovely nature reserves.
This should be the job of our governments. You can argue that a government is neglecting an area but we have a right to vote on this basis if we want. Surely it is better to keep our 10.6 billion and share it out ourselves.

There are so many threads on this subject I am actually confused what I have posted and on what thred




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[Diego Napier]

its not buying citizenship for 2 million quid though is it
youve twisted the facts a bit to suit.

the investor visa is valid for 3 1/4 years (extendable for extra 2 years max)
can apply to settle after 2 years if you invest £10 million
can apply to settle after 3 years if you invest £5 million

cant invest in companies mainly engaged in property investment, property management or property development

These people invest in UK government bonds, share capital or loan capital in active and trading UK registered companies.
I thought this was a good thing and welcomed.........now you are turning on them as well.

I do agree the individuals simply buying a property to sit on leaving empty is a problem and they should be taxed until their balls fall off.....however dont confuse them with genuine investors which we should all welcome

I don't, I didn't and I do.

I didn't twist any facts even a bit, I was keeping it simple to describe the repercussions of an aspect of an investment scheme that has demonstrably failed as an illustration of how the government all on their own without any help from the EU has exacerbated the plight of aspiring house owners. And an aspect that they've had a chance to amend but declined to do, to boot.