[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

I don't recall being asked to vote for any of these dodgy looking clowns-don't seem democratic to me!View attachment 73730
EU commissioners-never heard of any of them.


Sent from my bog by a frog

So 55m a day is being overseen by people that we know nothing about. I must have been asleep and missed voting for these faceless wonders.

 

[cunning fergus]

For me it's about cooperation, the economy, worker's rights, consumer rights.....probably in this order.

And yet in reality what you want is being smashed by the EU's commitment to neo-liberalism, where the market is king, everything else can go hang.

You talk of workers rights, yet unions have been emasculated across much of the EU as unelected technocrats impose austerity courtesy of the Troika.

Greece is an obvious example but the most profound is probably Spain where workers faced anything up to 40% pay cuts and had their rights unwound in the face of threats by businesses to move production out of Spain (sound familiar).

This lead to the rise of Podomos, a genuine leftist voice for workers rights........see attached a political blog on the situation.

http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2015/06/25/fundamental-rights-neoliberalism-crisis-spain-and-crisis-eu/

As it says.....

"the crisis of the EU has illustrated that neoliberalism and its advocates – an ensemble of powerful private and public actors, including many governments – cannot abide threats to neoliberalism itself and will seek to supress fundamental rights when they permit opposition to it. In effect, democracy and rights come into conflict with capitalism, enabling academic commentators on the left to speak of an authoritarian neoliberalism or a post-democratic era in Europe."

It's a strange dynamic with many of those wanting to stay in, they oppose Tory austerity in the UK, but will support it to the hilt when imposed by the EU.

Mad as a box of frogs aren't they?

 

[melias shoes]

I attach a selection of quotes from the great and the good concerning the EU, and democracy. Some of the key quotes you will note relate to how EU politicians and technocrats reacted to the outcome of referendums on the EU constitution in France and Holland. The results of which were completely ignored as the key constitutional clauses were served back up in the Lisbon Treaty.

http://www.politicalscrapbook.co.uk/kirk-kus-blog/the-great-eu-quotes/

At the time Peter Mandelson referred to the Treaty as a "tidying up exercise". The Labour Party had committed to give the British people a referendum on the constitution in there 2005 Manifesto (page 84 if my memory serves).

Even committed Europhiles (like Corbyn) accept there are democratic issues with the EU, however these are structural, and these shortcomings ignore the years of lies and deceit we have been served up by our own politicians about the aims of the EU.

It is this culture of treating the UK electorate like mugs that really sticks in the craw, particularly when UK politicians talk about aggressive expansionism of an undemocratic Russia, whilst ignoring the fact that the EU is due to push its own borders to Syria, Iraq and Iran without a by your leave from the EU electorates.

Unless of course you think we have all voted to let Turkey in?

Turkey? It's already happening. Slowly but surely.

 

[melias shoes]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nts-as-official-campaign-starts-a6985236.html
The truth wil out.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You mean unelected Political appointees having a significant role in proposing legislation effecting the people is democratic.

Do you have an issue regarding this happening in the UK as well? Proposals for UK law come from a variety of areas, many of which are not directly elected.

 

[8ace]

www.voteleave.co.uk

 

[gregbrighton]

Brexit supporters are nobs.

 

[sir albion]

Brexit supporters are nobs.

No they're proud to be British unlike many of the "in" clowns

 

[Two Professors]

Brexit supporters are nobs.

Very well put-together argument for staying in.Have you thought of running for EU Commissioner for preserving the English language?


Sent from the pub with a rub-a dub-dubatalk

 

[gregbrighton]

No they're proud to be British unlike many of the "in" clowns

You can be proud to be British and vote in, surely??

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Do you have an issue regarding this happening in the UK as well? Proposals for UK law come from a variety of areas, many of which are not directly elected.

I want a direct democratic link/line of sight for the UK electorate so they have the power to hold to account and remove if necessary any executive governmental institution that can initiate laws or propose new legislation that can be enforced in this country. I can't think of any UK examples that have the power or scope of the European Commision.

 

[Bladders]

Brexit supporters are nobs.

After your contribution to this debate you should change your user name to gulliblebrighton.

 

[jgmcdee]

You mean unelected Political appointees having a significant role in proposing legislation effecting the people is democratic. Would you be happy for a British Government to appoint the department heads of the UK civil service and give them the power to propose laws and legislation?

The selection of the EU commissioner for each nation is up to the individual member states. It could be by popular vote, appointment, or any other system. The UK has chosen to select their commissioner by appointment. If you feel this to be undemocratic then fair enough, but this is the UK being undemocratic, not the EU.

As I am only interested in direct democratic accountability to the UK electorate any increased power to the EP would make no difference, just increase the illusion of democratic legitimacy for another level of government at a European level that could completely ignore a majority or even all our MEP's votes (our wishes) if it so chose and we could do naff all to change it.

And here it is laid bare. Your problem isn't that the EU is undemocratic, it's that it is democratic.

It's funny how many times "the EU is undemocratic" ends up turning in to "the UK can't do whatever it wants".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I want a direct democratic link/line of sight for the UK electorate so they have the power to hold to account and remove if necessary any executive governmental institution that can initiate laws or propose new legislation that can be enforced in this country. I can't think of any UK examples that have the power or scope of the European Commision.

As many have pointed out, the Commission has no power. It can only propose law. This is no different than, for example, public enquiries which sometimes propose UK law. The U.K. has even has newspapers propose law. This is from the parliament website "Recommendations for new laws may also come from public inquiries, civil servants or lobbyist and campaign groups."

Out of interest how did you/do you think Uk law comes about?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And here it is laid bare. Your problem isn't that the EU is undemocratic, it's that it is democratic.

It's funny how many times "the EU is undemocratic" ends up turning in to "the UK can't do whatever it wants".

quite.

 

[drew]

and lining the pockets of the EU's mates, thats got to be important. spending €145bn on administration is pretty impressive when you think thats on top off all the costs each EU member already spends actually providing services and running their countries.

Where does this €145bn on administration come from? That sounds more like the total budget of which only 6% is reportedly spent on administration!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

It's still only April and the increase n migrants making the sea crossing is up by 170%. Last week the uk coastguard fished two inanians in a novelty rubber dinghy out of the channel off Dover. Come June I anticipate utter bedlam which will increase the likelihood of an "out" vote.

Whether or not the UK stays the EU is beginning to unravel.

60%
regards
DR

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Brexit supporters are nobs.

Well done, a well constructed argument with forthright evidence backing it up ..... not ! And you're calling other people knobs

 

[drew]

Nice list.
There are many links that support exit, and links that oppose your links.
Obviously you will not change your mind, neither will i. I want us to be in control of our own country and destiny, not ruled and ripped off by unelected, faceless bureaucrats.

Just for the record, we aren't ruled by faceless unelected bureaucrats from the EU any more than we are ruled by the civil service here rather than the elected members of Parliament.

And just for the record, 64% of people who voted at the last election aren't in control of their country or destiny.

 

[Two Professors]

If the commission has no power,how does it 'implement decisions,uphold EU treaties and manage the day to day business of the EU' as their manifesto says?
On a side note,can Inners be nobs as well,would seem more democratic


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