[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

What I am worried about if we leave is that this nasty very right wing Tory government will roll back the protections and rights for workers and citizens to allow their rich corporate buddies to exploit and abuse the labour force to make bigger profits. It is a very big danger and the main reason why I have moved back to be a Remain In voter.

The EU needs reforming but we shouldn't ditch it because we will all get exploited by Cameron, Osborne, Johnson and co even more than we already are.

You make some excellent well thought through points which is why of course you are now on the same side as those nasty Evil Tories Cameron and Osborne ... plus their rich corporate buddies

 

[gregbrighton]

He may be very well anti EU in its current guise but still thinks its better to stay in the EU to work on the reforms he thinks it needs, than leave altogether?

In addition there would be some aspects of it in its current guise that he does agree with and think are good.

I guess it's the lesser of two evils. It doesn't say much for our political systems. It's all pretty crap. No wonder there is so much dissatisfaction and apathy. Will many people actually bother to vote?

 

[DTES]

NET £8.4 billion per year, paid to an organistation that has failed, is unreformable and undemocratic, it's why a vote to Leave is the best thing we could ever do for this country.

Assuming this figure is correct (I don't know, but I'm not arguing with it here - working on the assumption that it is), that's £131 per person per year.

Norway - who are not in the EU - pay the EU £89 per person per year.

You can use the amount we pay to the EU as an argument if you like, but it's completely dishonest to say that we would save £8.4bn if we leave. This comparison suggests we would save 32% of that. Maybe that's still enough of an argument to leave - up to you if it convinces you - but don't pretend we'd save the lot.

 

[Hamilton]

I guess it's the lesser of two evils. It doesn't say much for our political systems. It's all pretty crap. No wonder there is so much dissatisfaction and apathy. Will many people actually bother to vote?

Interesting point.

I can see the Leave continent all voting. They want to see something happen. I can see those that are more or less happy with the status quo staying at home. There's a danger that we may well get a result that doesn't reflect the true feelings of all the voters, but hey, that happens all the time.

Another issue will be the difference between young voters and older voters. If older voters tend to be more interested in leaving and younger voters in staying then again it gets skewed.

 

[jgmcdee]

To be fair, I think that the current outers line of "we could spend an extra £23m a day on the NHS" (well they generally say £55m until corrected, but you get the idea) is by far and away the most likely argument they have come up with to sway the undecided voters. It's easy to understand and with the cost/benefit of being in the EU impossible to pin down to a single number any attempts to counter it will sound like prevarication.

 

[drew]

I'm not sure 3 relegated teams constitutes the whole Football League. Do you?

This is hard work!!!

Another example of the Premier league supporting lower league clubs.


http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/...ease-football-league-solidarity-payments.html

 

[drew]

You make some excellent well thought through points which is why of course you are now on the same side as those nasty Evil Tories Cameron and Osborne ... plus their rich corporate buddies

Cameron won't be PM when the EU ties are eventually severed should there be an exit vote. Johnson, who is for Brexit, is a very likely prospect of being PM.

 

[brightn'ove]

To be fair, I think that the current outers line of "we could spend an extra £23m a day on the NHS" (well they generally say £55m until corrected, but you get the idea) is by far and away the most likely argument they have come up with to sway the undecided voters. It's easy to understand and with the cost/benefit of being in the EU impossible to pin down to a single number any attempts to counter it will sound like prevarication.

The problem is we have a conservative government that would rather put the extra £23m a day in savings into their mates' back pockets than into the NHS

 

[1066gull]

INer

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk

 

[heathgate]

To be fair, I think that the current outers line of "we could spend an extra £23m a day on the NHS" (well they generally say £55m until corrected, but you get the idea) is by far and away the most likely argument they have come up with to sway the undecided voters. It's easy to understand and with the cost/benefit of being in the EU impossible to pin down to a single number any attempts to counter it will sound like prevarication.

Whilst no reasonable person expects the gain to UK ministries to be a net £23m per day of extra spending.... it is clear that at the very least, the redirected agricultural support for example, will be able to be focussed on UK relevant farming practices and requirements, it has always been said that the CAP doesn't always sit naturally with the way farming works here ( it is largely a French based poilicy). One size doesnt fit all, it cannot in such a diverse continent.

So even assuming that only 60% of the 8.5 billion is able to be ploughed directly into our spending strategy ie 5 billion,.... that 5 billion will at least be able to be spent on UK focussed policy and strategy..... not some bland 'common' policy that can in a lot of cases not fit with the UK requirements in said industry.

 

[DTES]

Whilst no reasonable person expects the gain to UK ministries to be a net £23m per day of extra spending.... it is clear that at the very least, the redirected aggricultural support for example, will be able to be focussed on UK relevant farming practices and requirements, it has always been said that the CAP doesn't always sit naturally with the way farming works here ( it is largely a French based poilicy). One size doesnt fit all, iy cannot in such a diverse continent.

So even assuming that only 60% of the 8.5 billion is able to be ploughed directly into our spending strategy ie 5 billion,.... that 5 billion will at least be able to be spent on UK focussed policy and strategy..... not some bland 'common' policy that can in a lot of cases not fit with the UK requirements in said industry.

As I say above though we won't save £8.5bn, or anywhere near it. If we want to still be in the single market (which we will), we'll still have to contribute. Norway is just one example I know, but they pay 68% as much per person per year as we do to the EU, even though they're not in it!

So combine the two examples and you're saying we'd put 60% of the 32% saving into our spending strategy - that's 19%. Maybe that - £1.6bn - is still a convincing argument? Is getting £1.6bn to spend but losing our votes over the rules governing the single market a fair trade?

 

[drew]

Not sure which way to go yet but does anyone really believe that this country with its economy will go to hell in a handcart if we leave, of course it won't, it will be different and major adjustments will need to be made which will take time.
My worry is that we don't have the MPs to sort it out for the good of the country while they are so busy in fighting and only considering their own needs.
An out vote will lead to a period of major carnage in the Government but they should be working on the countries needs from day one if we leave.
Ignorance PS. If we do leave are we out almost straight away or is there a long period of time before we walk. I have not looked into that one.

If we leave, I believe the estimates for severance are anything between 2 and 10 years! Officially, Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty apparently states negotiations for exit can go on for up to two years but this can be extended and some believe the negotiations would go on far longer. Whilst the exit is negotiated, we also need to start negotiating with other countries about trade etc.


As for your comments about MPs and governments, I suspect there is a large proportion that are more concerned about career progression rather than what is really good for all parts of society!!

 

[heathgate]

It would be yes,.... but of course its more than just that issue,... line them up, there are many many issues of dispute and agreement over the EU,.... I am firmly a Leave voter,..... and remarkably, so are almost ( I do say almost) all the people I know down here in the west country, of all income groups and demographic status.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It would be yes,.... but of course its more than just that issue,... line them up, there are many many issues of dispute and agreement over the EU,.... I am firmly a Leave voter,..... and remarkably, so are almost ( I do say almost) all the people I know down here in the west country, of all income groups and demographic status.

I'm sure they are, in the same way most of the sophisticated metropolitan types I know will vote in.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It would be yes,.... but of course its more than just that issue,... line them up, there are many many issues of dispute and agreement over the EU,.... I am firmly a Leave voter,..... and remarkably, so are almost ( I do say almost) all the people I know down here in the west country, of all income groups and demographic status.

The research I've seen suggests that the south west, like the south east, tends towards Out. East Anglia is strongly Out, London strongly In. The industrial heartlands of northern England tend towards In.

 

[heathgate]

I'm sure they are, in the same way most of the sophisticated metropolitan types I know will vote in.

Of course, if you count the populations of Bristol and Bath as being myopic and parochial, then you may consider them at different levels of discernment.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[heathgate]

The research I've seen suggests that the south west, like the south east, tends towards Out. East Anglia is strongly Out, London strongly In. The industrial heartlands of northern England tend towards In.

So that indicates a 60% out then.... good research that because that's what I said.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Buzzer]

I'm sure they are, in the same way most of the sophisticated metropolitan types I know will vote in.

Do you ever read back what you've written and think "I think I might have overdone things there. I'm coming across as a right cock"?

 

[DTES]

The research I've seen suggests that the south west, like the south east, tends towards Out. East Anglia is strongly Out, London strongly In. The industrial heartlands of northern England tend towards In.

So that indicates a 60% out then.... good research that because that's what I said.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

What you're missing (other than the fact that London's population is far bigger than any of the "out" regions listed), are Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. Scotland & Northern Ireland are even more pro-Remain than London, and Wales isn't far behind either:

 

[gregbrighton]

I think the In campaign will win, simply because the Out people don't have a proper strategy for Britan if we leave. I couldn't support them anymore because there are too many unknowns if we leave. Although Project Fear comes across as scaremongering, I think there is probably a lot of truth in what is being said. Whether the Outers like or not we have relative stability at present. The prospect of leaving might mean that businesses could pull out and the resulting unemployment could have a scary terrible impact on families up and down the country..

With the possible prospect of Scotland seeking independence would add to the instability, the break-up of the Union and the diminution of our influence in Europe and the World Stage.