[Politics] Brexit

[Deportivo Seagull]

Nonsense...

I’m not one for conspiracy theories but in the next couple of years we will be hearing just how much Russia influenced the leave vote. The Ukraine war has opened a lot of boxes that the Brexit hardliners wished would remain closed ….. is that a pun? I think it might be.

 

[chickens]

The simple fact of the matter is that for better or worse, we’re geographically located in Europe. As such, the markets we can be most competitive in, are European.

Shipping goods (or people) vast distances is both expensive and environmentally undesirable. As such, we were always going to suffer economically by introducing trade barriers between ourselves and our nearest neighbours.

However, those who organized Brexit persistently promised that by leaving and having a bonfire of EU regulations, we would benefit from Brexit, ignoring two basic truths:

1. If we produce goods that don’t meet European standards, we can’t sell them in our closest and largest export market.

2. In removing ourselves from the EU, we no longer benefit from centralised treaty and trade agreement management, and have to duplicate work the EU used to complete on our behalf. This means more Civil Servants and more bureaucracy, because if organisations do still want to export to the EU, they now have to complete more EU paperwork as a non-member, and separate U.K. paperwork too.

So now we scrabble around the third world looking for someone to buy our goods and services, having effectively removed our ability to compete on our home turf, or even get fresh produce into the country reliably.

 

[nicko31]

Ha! Keep telling yourself that. There simply isn’t a future scenario for the U.K. where we don’t rejoin the EU .

Expect to see these flags together more and more in the coming years

View attachment 157709

I think its a long way back. But we need to re-join the customs union ASAP, this is a major drag on our growth. Even the Tories will reach this conclusion in time

 

[chickens]

Mrs DiS and I were agreeing last night that, even though we don’t like his politics, Sunak is at least half way competent and seems to be able to do attention to detail….. which Johnson couldn’t.

interesting discussions on the radio that the Tories are taking this seriously because Sunak was a convinced Brexiteer throughout, whereas Johnson wasn’t - the famous “two articles written” stuff. Has Sunak been very clever in out manoeuvring Johnson, the ERG et al?

I think he has. I also think the sell to the Conservative Party is simple. It’s “either you vote for this deal, or I call a general election.”

There’s almost no such thing as a safe Tory seat atm, and there’s nothing that focuses an MP’s mind more than the risk of not being an MP any longer.

 

[A1X]

Nonsense...

It’s the logical outcome. Indeed I can easily see a scenario where both major parties are pledging a return to the Single Market as soon as the election after the next one, but definitely by the one after that it’ll be firmly on the table outside the headbanger elements.

 

[The Clamp]

It’s the logical outcome. Indeed I can easily see a scenario where both major parties are pledging a return to the Single Market as soon as the election after the next one, but definitely by the one after that it’ll be firmly on the table outside the headbanger elements.

Once the Tory’s are out, we also lose all the ERG loons, the “just believe in Brexit” morons, and the far right Brexiteers.

It’s only a matter of time after that.

 

[nicko31]

Once the Tory’s are out, we also lose all the ERG loons, the “just believe in Brexit” morons, and the far right Brexiteers.

It’s only a matter of time after that.

The key is to get a Tory wipe out, then they will have to change as they always do to get back in power.

The next election is key, the voting system is already comprimised with voter ID. Give them another term and they will feel further vindicated with yet more Oban style policies. The attack on the media and the judiciary has only just begun.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I understand it's the 'Stormont Brake' that the DUP are looking hard at. Under the new agreement, NI is still subject to EU Goods laws and the European Court of Justice, but If the EU introduce new laws that NI don't like they can use this to oppose the new laws (anyone remember Theresa May's Northern Ireland Backstop ).

It needs 30 members from at least 2 parties in order to apply it. I'm not sure of the current Stormont make up, but I'm guessing it will need both Unionists and Nationalists in order to operate. The question will be whether the DUP believe the Nationalists would vote for the Stormont Brake or whether they could see it as a method of pushing for a United Ireland.

Guess we'll find out in the next day or two

 

[Lever]

Basically Tory Government agrees to do what it agreed to do in 2019! What credit is due for that?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Basically Tory Government agrees to do what it agreed to do in 2019! What credit is due for that?

Brexit: What are the backstop options?​

A Northern Ireland only backstop?​

This is what the EU originally proposed.
It would involve Northern Ireland alone remaining in the EU's single market and customs union, leaving Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) free to strike trade deals. But the DUP - a Northern Ireland unionist party that propped up Theresa May's minority Conservative government - objected to this.
It said it would see Northern Ireland treated differently and could threaten the union. Boris Johnson has also specifically ruled this out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

BBC October 2019.

Well that was a fun way to spend 3 and a half years rebranding 'NI Backstop' to 'Stormont Brake'

 

[Nobby]

Brexit: What are the backstop options?​

A Northern Ireland only backstop?​

This is what the EU originally proposed.
It would involve Northern Ireland alone remaining in the EU's single market and customs union, leaving Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) free to strike trade deals. But the DUP - a Northern Ireland unionist party that propped up Theresa May's minority Conservative government - objected to this.
It said it would see Northern Ireland treated differently and could threaten the union. Boris Johnson has also specifically ruled this out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

BBC October 2019.

Well that was a fun way to spend 3 and a half years rebranding 'NI Backstop' to 'Stormont Brake'

Bloody hilarious

 

[WATFORD zero]

Bloody hilarious

Just when you think that the idiocy has reached it's absolute Zenith

Brexit - the gift that just keeps taking

 

[5Ways Gull]

I think its a long way back. But we need to re-join the customs union ASAP, this is a major drag on our growth. Even the Tories will reach this conclusion in time

Yeah but which Tories? Always feels to me like 2 separate parties that come together for the General Elections to keep Labour out, then go off in their different directions for the next 5 years screwing up the country.

 

[A1X]

I understand it's the 'Stormont Brake' that the DUP are looking hard at. Under the new agreement, NI is still subject to EU Goods laws and the European Court of Justice, but If the EU introduce new laws that NI don't like they can use this to oppose the new laws (anyone remember Theresa May's Northern Ireland Backstop ).

It needs 30 members from at least 2 parties in order to apply it. I'm not sure of the current Stormont make up, but I'm guessing it will need both Unionists and Nationalists in order to operate. The question will be whether the DUP believe the Nationalists would vote for the Stormont Brake or whether they could see it as a method of pushing for a United Ireland.

Guess we'll find out in the next day or two

Currently, in theory, the Unionists could. The DUP have 25 and the UUP have 9, so 36 votes across two parties. Whether the UUP is quite as willing to hari-kari itself in the same way as the DUP is open for debate, or indeed whether they see it as a way back to relevance to be the "pragmatic Unionist" option.

The full breakdown is seats is as follows;

Sinn Fein - 27
DUP - 25
Alliance - 17
UUP - 9
SDLP - 8
Independent - 2
TUV - 1
People Before Profit - 1

 

[Driver8]

Sunak on TV just now saying that NI will be in a very powerful position as they will have access to UK and EU markets and have an advantage over the rest of the UK. So just like the rest of the UK before Brexit then. .

 

[Wokeworrier]

Nonsense...

Indeed, but still quite amusing reading all the delusional wishful thinking from the pro EU obsessives.

We are simply moving from the messy unpleasant divorce stage to the let's put the arguments behind us and move on with our separate lives while remaining friendly stage ...

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

We are simply moving from the messy unpleasant divorce stage to the let's put the arguments behind us and move on with our separate lives while remaining friendly stage ...

...... while thinking that we might have got better custody arrangements for the children had we not made all the threats and indulged in the name calling.

 

[Nobby]

Sunak on TV just now saying that NI will be in a very powerful position as they will have access to UK and EU markets and have an advantage over the rest of the UK. So just like the rest of the UK before Brexit then. .

Beyond belief - did he actually say that
Bunch of imbeciles

 

[Lever]

...... while thinking that we might have got better custody arrangements for the children had we not made all the threats and indulged in the name calling.

You can explain it to hard line Brexiters as much as you like, but you cannot understand it for them.....

The question is.... why did it take so long for the Tory Government to honour a promise made several years ago?

 

[birthofanorange]

...... while thinking that we might have got better custody arrangements for the children had we not made all the threats and indulged in the name calling.

In time, the parents might be able to move freely between the two homes - maybe even stay, if they are both happy about it, and even share in the shopping, as it's cheaper to buy for more than one.
If only such a thing had previously existed...