[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

Again you’ve isolated one bit of the story and not mentioned other years with issues …..have a great day I’m off to get some work done..by all means reply and have the last say

Sounds good... but I think Brexit has had the final say on the matter.....

 

[LamieRobertson]

Oh FFS. Literally the second line in that article says "Kent Police said traffic was back at normal levels, after drivers had queued for up to 14 hours because of extra French security checks at the port." When you read the report, it tells you why those security checks were happening - because a terror attack had left 130 dead. This was not a normal situation, and doesn't compare to what we're seeing now does it?

Yet you accused people pointing this out as having an agenda. It's clearly you with the agenda.

FFS yourself …geez .

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's an entirely different argument for another thread, and in any case it wouldn't help because what Simster was suggesting was that even 59% of the vote should not have been enough to reverse what the politicians had done.

It absolutely is not a different argument if you state 'over vote per person' in your defence.

 

[Wozza]

Again you’ve isolated one bit of the story and not mentioned other years with issues …..have a great day I’m off to get some work done..by all means reply and have the last say

"It's all perfectly normal in Dover, everybody. Like this all the time..."

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Another warning if you are a blue badge holder. These are no longer valid in EU countries.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The European Community is a different organisation from the European Economic Community. The EEC was never claimed to be a political union and they had to have a new treaty to create one.

The EEC is governed by the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) treaty. If this is not a politcal union I do not know what is.

 

[Lever]

Brexit Government Shaft UK Ports With £450 Million White Elephants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTOhtUhdgBc

 

[KZNSeagull]

View attachment 150286

"It's all perfectly normal in Dover, everybody. Like this all the time..."

Interestingly, I only listened for about 20 minutes this morning, but a caller to Nikki Campbell who lives and has a business in Dover said that gridlock in and around Dover has been happening at busy times of the year for years and pre-dates brexit.

I am also of the view that it is a perfect storm that the extra post-Brexit checks has exacerbated. Also, the airfield that they were using for queuing freight lorries is no longer in use so that hasn't helped, nor did the French Border force being delayed getting to work on the morning of the first day.

And as an update on my previous "investigations" into the number of passport booths, I saw on the news that there are 12 lanes available, whether that translates to 12 passport booths is not clear but I assume that it does. Yesterday, 1 was open to freight, 8 for passengers and 3 were closed. So there appear to be more than the 5 that were stated in the article from 2020 that was doing the rounds at the weekend.

As for the future and re-joining the EU, I say yes to the single market and SKS should be brave and fight the next election on that, whilst trying to come up with some plan on freedom of movement if possible. No to fully re-joining the EU, particularly as they are discussing the removal of vetoes following the problems they had with the Russian sanctions (this was reported in Private Eye before anyone asks).

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Another warning if you are a blue badge holder. These are no longer valid in EU countries.

False!

Let's get the facts right here ... as others are called up on things!

France, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy are among those "undecided" on recognising the discs, which help people park closer to a destination.

Bulgaria, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Romania and Slovenia are also undecided on the issue, but all other EU nations accept UK badges.

So Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia and Sweden accept UK badges and the others are considering it ... they have't said they won't accept them!!

 

[Simster]

FFS yourself …geez .

We get it. You have an agenda, you can't defend yourself, so now you're running away. Well done.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The EEC is governed by the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) treaty. If this is not a politcal union I do not know what is.

"What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organisation spanning many different policy areas, from climate, environment and health to external relations and security, justice and migration. A name change from the European Economic Community to the European Union in 1993 reflected this."

That's from the EU's own website. They think the EEC was not the same as the EU. So do I.

https://op.europa.eu/webpub/com/eu-what-it-is/en/

 

[BBassic]

Then you get Herr Tubthumper's point about PR coming into it. Politics is such a nuanced thing in that very few of us support absolutely everything about a single party. And if the thing that we don't like (in this case, membership of the EU) is on the slate of both parties, then anti-EU people have nowhere to go (apart from Labour under Michael Foot, of course!)

Under the current system the Scottish Nationalists could have declared UDI from the UK with just 45% of the vote in 2019 or even just 37% of the vote in 2017, because they had a majority of Scottish seats. The people must be given a say in the big decisions like independence, and even the Scottish Nats accept that. As do Labour, they would not re-enter the EU without another referendum. (Not sure about the LibDems!) Under the current system, huge decisions like the EU have to have a referendum.

I think it would have to have a referendum under any system of PR as well, as it happens, but that (like I say) is an argument for another thread.

Yeah again I do broadly agree.

I'm of the view that more or less every decision a politician (Government) makes has the potential to be 'huge', to have an effect on our lives. We don't have referendums for them though because we have put our faith and trust in those people to make those decisions in our best interests.

I just don't believe we should have been left to make this seismic of a decision. I was a remainer and I felt ill-informed about the decision, opting to go with the status quo. I'm comfortable enough to admit that. And if I was ill-informed then others must have been too, on both sides of it.

Personally think leaving that sort of a change to the general public was a dereliction of duty.

 

[Wozza]

Interestingly, I only listened for about 20 minutes this morning, but a caller to Nikki Campbell who lives and has a business in Dover said that gridlock in and around Dover has been happening at busy times of the year for years and pre-dates brexit.

Did they say if they were one of the 62.2% Dover residents who voted for Brexit - and might possibly be in denial?

Let's face it, it remains to be seen what is the 'new normal'.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We get it. You have an agenda, you can't defend yourself, so now you're running away. Well done.

“Running away” LOL

Well as posted before I’m trying to get work done ..I’ve just given this a casual glance ..if you want to carry on with the insults ..it doesn’t bother me …I’ve got better things to do

 

[KZNSeagull]

Did they say if they were one of the 62.2% Dover residents who voted for Brexit - and might possibly be in denial?

Let's face it, it remains to be seen what is the 'new normal'.

She didn't, but she was having trouble blaming Brexit for the current issues mainly because it has been going on for years according to her. She did say that the extra check didn't help.

True re your last paragraph.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organisation spanning many different policy areas, from climate, environment and health to external relations and security, justice and migration. A name change from the European Economic Community to the European Union in 1993 reflected this."

That's from the EU's own website. They think the EEC was not the same as the EU. So do I.

https://op.europa.eu/webpub/com/eu-what-it-is/en/

Er, I am not disputing whether the EEC and the EU are the same. You stated the EEC is not a political union; I fail to agree that an economic union between nation states with voting rights is anything but, partly, a political union. I stated the treaty to explain this.

 

[mikeyjh]

But now the UK has an opportunity to pull together again. A new PM, maybe a GE too in the near future. But the blame game needs to stop, the electorate is polarised, and that will help nobody. Maybe one day you guys will be part of the EU again, but in the meantime fighting amongst yourselves and the refusal to consider points other than your own will do no good whatsoever.

The problem with the "We've got to move on" narrative is that it's very simplistic and it's not in human nature to just forget about things that upset you - See Boris Johnson, operation big dog, the public wants to move on, well actually, they didn't. I make no apology for again pointing the finger at Brexiteers but I think remainers are angry & frustrated about many things right now. That much of was predicted to happen, with regard to travel etc, is happening. That we are yet to see any discernible benefit from the process. Most importantly for me though, (and I know I've already posted this) is order to 'move on' is at least for those brexiteers to recognise that there are some problems that will inevitably be caused by Brexit. The arguments they are making that the chaos at Dover is to do with almost anything other than Brexit is bordering on the insane, it's ignoring all the evidence, all the impartial opinions and all the facts. For their to be some sort of reconciliation, we could at least start by acknowledging some of these facts.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

False!

Let's get the facts right here ... as others are called up on things!

France, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy are among those "undecided" on recognising the discs, which help people park closer to a destination.

Bulgaria, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Romania and Slovenia are also undecided on the issue, but all other EU nations accept UK badges.

So Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Slovakia and Sweden accept UK badges and the others are considering it ... they have't said they won't accept them!!

I apologise, Some countries are still neotiating.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...adges-may-not-be-accepted-in-eu-due-to-brexit


Edit, in my defence, I believed what the Today programme actually said.

 

[mikeyjh]

Personally think leaving that sort of a change to the general public was a dereliction of duty.

Yep - It's why we don't have referenda on things like the death penalty. It would be a yes in a heartbeat because those campaigning for it would talk about child killers and how they must pay for their crimes, while those against could only point to good old fashioned evidence which, as we now know, doesn't work!

 

[Stat Brother]

The problem with the "We've got to move on" narrative is

We can't and won't be able to for years, potentially decades, to come.