[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

Well yes, presumably. Why the queues? Are we being searched before we leave? How odd.

Some are.

 

[Simster]

If it takes 60% vote to leave the EC, then it should take a 60% vote to enter it. We never had that vote. I do not like the idea that politicians can make decisions which become binding unless a super-majority of people oppose them; democracy is one-person one-vote and that must not be weakened.

I would prefer not to have referendums at all. The decision to take us in or out of the EU should never have been left to an ill informed public. That is why we elect our leaders, to work in our interests, not to blindly do as they're told.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Dodgy? Moi? They were searching all similar vehicles where there was scope for people hiding.

Mrs DiS turned off the Nick Ferrari show on LBC this morning (she can’t stand him anyway) because again it was ALL about blaming the French. Liz Truss is being continuously confrontational and combative about it as well. Why can’t we just sit down with them and start - OK, this has been a bit of a disaster, hasn’t it. What do we need to do to make it better next time. Sitting down and talking about it is always going to be better than shouting at people across the channel.

Brexit was supposed to free the UK to be the master of it's own destiny. The fact people are blaming France somehat undermines this argument.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Brenley Corner (where the M2 splits into the A2 and A299) has created tailbacks half a mile towards Faversham, and left traffic crawling all the way back to Sittingbourne, on and off, over the last several days. The police have coned lanes off (the 'corner' is a two lane roundabout with six exits and six entrances, and is controlled by four sets of traffic lights). This is apparently due in part to controlling traffic to and from Dover. Artificial creation of a bottleneck. Most peculiar.

As an aside, with the massive amount of new building around Faversham, I am now routinely seeing huge tailbacks through the town. All entirely predictable, but with absolutely no new roads, a complete planning fail. We Brits are hopeless over planning. Weird.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would prefer not to have referendums at all. The decision to take us in or out of the EU should never have been left to an ill informed public. That is why we elect our leaders, to work in our interests, not to blindly do as they're told.

Very much this.

 

[BBassic]

If it takes 60% vote to leave the EC, then it should take a 60% vote to enter it. We never had that vote. I do not like the idea that politicians can make decisions which become binding unless a super-majority of people oppose them; democracy is one-person one-vote and that must not be weakened.

Whilst agreeing broadly about your point that democracy must not be weakened I disagree with this bit here.

You vote for the politicians, the politicians have to make the big calls. Otherwise what's the point of them?

EDIT - see Simster has made this point as well.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Let's bring in PR then.

That's an entirely different argument for another thread, and in any case it wouldn't help because what Simster was suggesting was that even 59% of the vote should not have been enough to reverse what the politicians had done.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I would prefer not to have referendums at all. The decision to take us in or out of the EU should never have been left to an ill informed public. That is why we elect our leaders, to work in our interests, not to blindly do as they're told.

I agree 110%. Referendums at various times over the last 50 years would have brought back hanging, 'compulsory repatriation' (of 'Asians', West Indians and, during the 'troubles', Irish), corporal punishment (in prisons as well as schools), banning of homosexuality, punk rock, foreign food (muck) and Demis Roussos.

 

[nicko31]

If it takes 60% vote to leave the EC, then it should take a 60% vote to enter it. We never had that vote.

1975 was 67% has in favour.

Going ahead with a marginal 52% in favour from an advisory referendum with 2 nations in favour, 2 against was never going to end well.

Critically its at the very root of this Tory meltdown, the only way to settle years of infighting was to introduce a compelling liar into the fold, in the end it was unsustainable.

The liar may be gone for now, but the fantasy and desire to get Brexit undone and redone will continue to plague them.

Most of us, want to move on and make it work. They they don't want this, instead preferring to try and use UK/EU relations as a wedge issue. Its tragic to watch and is mutually destructive, especially for the UK.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Queues at Dover who’d have thought it …is it really that remarkable for this time of year …seems like some are quite happy to use it for their own little agenda

This random Google search for 2016 …six years to the day lol

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36877177

 

[dsr-burnley]

Whilst agreeing broadly about your point that democracy must not be weakened I disagree with this bit here.

You vote for the politicians, the politicians have to make the big calls. Otherwise what's the point of them?

EDIT - see Simster has made this point as well.

Then you get Herr Tubthumper's point about PR coming into it. Politics is such a nuanced thing in that very few of us support absolutely everything about a single party. And if the thing that we don't like (in this case, membership of the EU) is on the slate of both parties, then anti-EU people have nowhere to go (apart from Labour under Michael Foot, of course!)

Under the current system the Scottish Nationalists could have declared UDI from the UK with just 45% of the vote in 2019 or even just 37% of the vote in 2017, because they had a majority of Scottish seats. The people must be given a say in the big decisions like independence, and even the Scottish Nats accept that. As do Labour, they would not re-enter the EU without another referendum. (Not sure about the LibDems!) Under the current system, huge decisions like the EU have to have a referendum.

I think it would have to have a referendum under any system of PR as well, as it happens, but that (like I say) is an argument for another thread.

 

[Wozza]

The only change I've seen since Brexit is that my passport is stamped - the time to pass French border control hasn't increased at all.

When we were in the EU, passport control only need to check the photo. In busy periods, they would wave folk through. Because, even though we weren't part of the Schengen agreement, we were a trusted member of the EU.

Not we're treated like anyone else outside the EU. Passport control have to check the photo, stamp the passport, check for other stamps (to check you haven't stayed in the EU too long), ask questions about your return etc etc.

If there are five people in a car, this takes a lot of time.

I'll ask again, what is your experience of travelling across the channel before Brexit v after Brexit ?

When I did Harwich to Hook five years ago, we were pretty much straight off the boat into Netherlands. In May this year, it took at least 90min to get through passport control in Hook.

 

[Wozza]

Queues at Dover who’d have thought it …is it really that remarkable for this time of year …seems like some are quite happy to use it for their own little agenda

This random Google search for 2016 …six years to the day lol

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36877177

Unusual circumstances due to the terror attacks in France. Literally says it in the article.

 

[dsr-burnley]

1975 was 67% has in favour.

Going ahead with a marginal 52% in favour from an advisory referendum with 2 nations in favour, 2 against was never going to end well.

Critically its at the very root of this Tory meltdown, the only way to settle years of infighting was to introduce a compelling liar into the fold, in the end it was unsustainable.

The liar may be gone for now, but the fantasy and desire to get Brexit undone and redone will continue to plague them.

Most of us, want to move on and make it work. They they don't want this, instead preferring to try and use UK/EU relations as a wedge issue. Its tragic to watch and is mutually destructive, especially for the UK.

The European Community is a different organisation from the European Economic Community. The EEC was never claimed to be a political union and they had to have a new treaty to create one.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Unusual circumstances due to the terror attacks in France. Literally says it in the article.

Yes I did read it thanks…it also talks about other factors if you read the whole report…exasperated by the time of year…just as now
…other years talk about Operation Stack (we all know that one)..

 

[Wozza]

Yes I did read it thanks

You searched Google for previous hold-ups at Dover.

And posted it without context.

And then accused others having an 'agenda'...

 

[LamieRobertson]

You searched Google for previous hold-ups at Dover.

And posted it without context.

And then accused others having an 'agenda'...

..and you chose to just take one bit out of the article as you did with my post
..as said there are plenty of other years when there is an issue ..personally I think it’s a multitude of reasons….as TB said yesterday …all brought together as a perfect storm

 

[Wozza]

..and you chose to just take one bit out of the article

Yes, the very specific reason for the holds-ups in the story you "randomly" selected whilst you're pretending Dover chaos is normal.

Facepalm, indeed.

 

[Simster]

..and you chose to just take one bit out of the article as you did with my post
..as said there are plenty of other years when there is an issue ..personally I think it’s a multitude of reasons….as TB said yesterday …all brought together as a perfect storm

Oh FFS. Literally the second line in that article says "Kent Police said traffic was back at normal levels, after drivers had queued for up to 14 hours because of extra French security checks at the port." When you read the report, it tells you why those security checks were happening - because a terror attack had left 130 dead. This was not a normal situation, and doesn't compare to what we're seeing now does it?

Yet you accused people pointing this out as having an agenda. It's clearly you with the agenda.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Yes, the very specific reason for the holds-ups in the story you "randomly" selected whilst you're pretending Dover chaos are normal.

Facepalm, indeed.

Again you’ve isolated one bit of the story and not mentioned other years with issues …..have a great day I’m off to get some work done..by all means reply and have the last say