[Politics] Brexit

[Simster]

They may be very valid points but they are still to do with Brexit.

Sorry, things don't just get moved to the Bear Pit so that you don't have to read of the appalling consequences of the Brexit you voted for.

The only thing that got out of hand was the brief name-calling towards Mouldy Boots.

 

[vegster]

This is what worries me about the future, the refusal to accept others may have a different and perfectly valid point of view.

I personally have a very mixed up history about Brexit. I was completely against it from the off, from both a personal and overall viewpoint. When the news cam in of the vote to leave I was gutted, and rightly so as it cost me many thousands of pounds. But…….it was a democratic vote. When Boris stood on a ‘get it done’ ticket, I voted for him although I already believed that he was a complete buffoon. It was the right thing to do in my eyes, enact the will of the people.

But now the UK has an opportunity to pull together again. A new PM, maybe a GE too in the near future. But the blame game needs to stop, the electorate is polarised, and that will help nobody. Maybe one day you guys will be part of the EU again, but in the meantime fighting amongst yourselves and the refusal to consider points other than your own will do no good whatsoever.

The problem is that some take an " invalid " view and keep repeating it despite the obvious invalidity.... that's when you end up with the likes of Trump and Johnson running a country in their own image.

Simply put, Brexit is a failure, but, for some reason few in Parliament are able to mention it without being shouted down by radical Brexiteers in the media quoting " democratic votes " and the will of the people.

Now we face an election of a new Tory leader from two candidates both stained by their closeness and support of Johnson where both are vying to be more spiteful to refugees and more anti Europe in as many forms as possible.

All I have said is put Mouldy on ignore as he's not got anything new to say.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Why the personal insult Dave, thought you were better than that.

Apologies. I think it’s more a perception that you are probably a bit paranoid, which may not be surprising with everyone getting at you.

But you do seem to take it personally, even when it’s not clear insults.
We voted for BREXIT - I get it, fair enough.
What happened at Dover over this weekend was always on the cards, was predicted in that FT article from 2 years ago. If you introduce passport controls and do it properly, it will take longer than if you are just waved through.
If anything is to blame for the misery so many people went through, it is our government, who refused to accede to suggestions of providing more passport booths.
Maybe next year it will be better.

Putting Dover aside, we crossed Portsmouth to Caen and back in June in a 7mtr long Motorhome. What I didn’t understand was the searching of the vehicle:…. And every other van, Motorhome or boat being towed.
At Portsmouth, the inside of the van and the storage areas were checked by “security” before we left the country. Why?
On the return journey we were all searched three times
Once by French Customs - four of them, nice people, including a sniffer dog
Second time by “Securitas”, still in France, but on whose behalf we didn’t know.
Third time after landing in Portsmouth by Border Force when they were checking passports. The officer did say that they were looking for people, who might have sneaked on to the car deck in Caen then gained access to vehicles to hide themselves.

The whole thing was over the top and the only one I could really understand at all was the final Portsmouth one. Even so, we thought it was over the top.

 

[Eric the meek]

On last night's news, a bloke from the AA was predicting further severe delays at Dover over the coming weekends.

How he knows the exact dates when the French border staff are going to skive off again, beats me.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

This is what worries me about the future, the refusal to accept others may have a different and perfectly valid point of view.

I personally have a very mixed up history about Brexit. I was completely against it from the off, from both a personal and overall viewpoint. When the news cam in of the vote to leave I was gutted, and rightly so as it cost me many thousands of pounds. But…….it was a democratic vote. When Boris stood on a ‘get it done’ ticket, I voted for him although I already believed that he was a complete buffoon. It was the right thing to do in my eyes, enact the will of the people.

But now the UK has an opportunity to pull together again. A new PM, maybe a GE too in the near future. But the blame game needs to stop, the electorate is polarised, and that will help nobody. Maybe one day you guys will be part of the EU again, but in the meantime fighting amongst yourselves and the refusal to consider points other than your own will do no good whatsoever.

Same here. I remember having a conversation with a couple on a rooftop restaurant in Lindos on Rhodes a week or so before the referendum. We all agreed we wanted to remain in the EU and indeed I put my 'X' against Remain. I stayed awake during the night watching the results come in ... getting more horrified as we crept towards morning. I was in shock for a while but then came around to the fact that the result was the result and we just had to get on with it. I also accepted it was going to be very bumpy as things changed and that some things would take some time. In fact, due to the rhetoric that subsequently came from the likes of Guy Verhofstadt and the hard line retainers, I now wish I'd actually voted Leave!!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Apologies. I think it’s more a perception that you are probably a bit paranoid, which may not be surprising with everyone getting at you.

But you do seem to take it personally, even when it’s not clear insults.
We voted for BREXIT - I get it, fair enough.
What happened at Dover over this weekend was always on the cards, was predicted in that FT article from 2 years ago. If you introduce passport controls and do it properly, it will take longer than if you are just waved through.
If anything is to blame for the misery so many people went through, it is our government, who refused to accede to suggestions of providing more passport booths.
Maybe next year it will be better.

Putting Dover aside, we crossed Portsmouth to Caen and back in June in a 7mtr long Motorhome. What I didn’t understand was the searching of the vehicle:…. And every other van, Motorhome or boat being towed.
At Portsmouth, the inside of the van and the storage areas were checked by “security” before we left the country. Why?
On the return journey we were all searched three times
Once by French Customs - four of them, nice people, including a sniffer dog
Second time by “Securitas”, still in France, but on whose behalf we didn’t know.
Third time after landing in Portsmouth by Border Force when they were checking passports. The officer did say that they were looking for people, who might have sneaked on to the car deck in Caen then gained access to vehicles to hide themselves.

The whole thing was over the top and the only one I could really understand at all was the final Portsmouth one. Even so, we thought it was over the top.

The reason for the checking is, I presume, because of the customs border.

 

[Eric the meek]

How about Narcissism?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/basics/narcissism

Amplified by being able to type out a discourse on a football chat forum that they would never ever convey in speech face to face with a stranger in any other environment.

We know who they are.

Has psychologytoday.com got a category for frustrated, wannabe psychologists, who offer clinical diagnoses remotely on football chat forums?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

On last night's news, a bloke from the AA was predicting further severe delays at Dover over the coming weekends.

How he knows the exact dates when the French border staff are going to skive off again, beats me.

How ever he found out, the Financial Times’ intelligence is far better as they predicted this 2 years ago. Respect.

 

[Eric the meek]

Time for this to be merged with the Brexit thread in the Bear Pit me thinks. Becoming far too Brexit thread MK2.

[MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION]
[MENTION=600]Bry Nylon[/MENTION]

I disagree. An AA spokesman was on the telly last night, saying that there could be more delays at Dover over coming weekends.

So, we can look forward to 'Chaos at Dover Mk2', or 'Chaos at Dover - August 2022' or 'Chaos at Dover - version (insert your chosen number)'.

Besides, you've already said that these delays are nothing to do with Brexit, so why do you want the thread moved to the Bear Pit?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The reason for the checking is, I presume, because of the customs border.

Yes, but it all seemed a bit OTT.
On the way out, I would have understood it more if we were searched in France by the French.
And then why two searches in France on the way back. We’re they looking for different things? We’ll never know.
It just all seemed so unnecessary when you’re used to just sailing through……. Although one realises things have changed, it was far more draconian than before we had free movement - desperate to show we have taken control of our borders.

 

[BadFish]

On last night's news, a bloke from the AA was predicting further severe delays at Dover over the coming weekends.

How he knows the exact dates when the French border staff are going to skive off again, beats me.

I hope he is on the wagon while driving.

 

[Bold Seagull]

How about Narcissism?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/basics/narcissism

Amplified by being able to type out a discourse on a football chat forum that they would never ever convey in speech face to face with a stranger in any other environment.

We know who they are.

Narcissists generally lack self awareness.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

After all the damage Brexit has caused to the UK, to businesses, to many individuals and to partnerships and families, people are angry. Yes it was a vote, but it was narrow and too narrow for such a potentially seismic issue. In many other areas, anything remotely close to such a significant change requires a super-majority. The idea the nation is simply going to forget and pull together upon a new PM is even more daft than your decision to vote for Boris. This is going to rumble on for many years.

Indeed, the reason we are getting a new PM, the 4th one in 6 years, is because of the mess the country is in. People can put their fingers in their ears, and sing la la la, but that isn’t going to solve anything.

 

[Simster]

How about Narcissism?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/basics/narcissism

Amplified by being able to type out a discourse on a football chat forum that they would never ever convey in speech face to face with a stranger in any other environment.

We know who they are.

Christ. Whatever you do, don't look up the definition of "irony".

Or "hypocrite" for that matter.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I disagree. An AA spokesman was on the telly last night, saying that there could be more delays at Dover over coming weekends.

So, we can look forward to 'Chaos at Dover Mk2', or 'Chaos at Dover - August 2022' or 'Chaos at Dover - version (insert your chosen number)'.

Besides, you've already said that these delays are nothing to do with Brexit, so why do you want the thread moved to the Bear Pit?

Because looking at many of the posts it appears to have become a Brexiteer bashing thread rather than a discussion around the delays - much like the original Brexit thread.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Really? Some valid points being made e.g. [MENTION=25402]Blue Valkyrie[/MENTION]

You are too kind. But I don't claim to have all the answers. Just a desire for the politicians to cut through to the core issues and fix the mess. The solution is very obvious to me, so I'm disappointed in the lack of vision or the lack of courage of most of our MPs.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Maybe we should throw some money at France to hire more staff?
Taking back control by paying someone to manage borders.

 

[Eric the meek]

Because looking at many of the posts it appears to have become a Brexiteer bashing thread rather than a discussion around the delays - much like the original Brexit thread.

Which comments would you consider to be 'Brexiteer bashing'? None of mine I hope.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

The problem is that some take an " invalid " view and keep repeating it despite the obvious invalidity.... that's when you end up with the likes of Trump and Johnson running a country in their own image.

Simply put, Brexit is a failure, but, for some reason few in Parliament are able to mention it without being shouted down by radical Brexiteers in the media quoting " democratic votes " and the will of the people.

Now we face an election of a new Tory leader from two candidates both stained by their closeness and support of Johnson where both are vying to be more spiteful to refugees and more anti Europe in as many forms as possible.

All I have said is put Mouldy on ignore as he's not got anything new to say, you may have a point! Anyway, I thought you guys were all about freedom to let people express their feelings.

You can do as you wish, if I took this view they might be at least 30 on ignore who have nothing new to say.

Apologies. Appologies accepted. I think it’s more a perception that you are probably a bit paranoid, which may not be surprising with everyone getting at you.

But you do seem to take it personally, even when it’s not clear insults.I really don't want to go back and quote all the posts that have personally abused me, I think its obvious, perhaps you miss or don't read them all.
We voted for BREXIT - I get it, fair enough.Great!
What happened at Dover over this weekend was always on the cards, was predicted in that FT article from 2 years ago. If you introduce passport controls and do it properly, it will take longer than if you are just waved through.Agreeded
If anything is to blame for the misery so many people went through, it is our government, who refused to accede to suggestions of providing more passport booths.The original ones were not manned and yes we do need more, but please tell the french to fill them. We have all seen supermarkets put in new lanes and not use them.
Maybe next year it will be better. I Agree if the French work with us and we have the money to invest in this area.

Putting Dover aside, we crossed Portsmouth to Caen and back in June in a 7mtr long Motorhome. What I didn’t understand was the searching of the vehicle:…. And every other van, Motorhome or boat being towed.
At Portsmouth, the inside of the van and the storage areas were checked by “security” before we left the country. Why?
On the return journey we were all searched three times
Once by French Customs - four of them, nice people, including a sniffer dog
Second time by “Securitas”, still in France, but on whose behalf we didn’t know.
Third time after landing in Portsmouth by Border Force when they were checking passports. The officer did say that they were looking for people, who might have sneaked on to the car deck in Caen then gained access to vehicles to hide themselves.

The whole thing was over the top and the only one I could really understand at all was the final Portsmouth one. Even so, we thought it was over the top.
Just maybe you look at bit of a dodgy Dave

Anwsers in BOLD.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Because looking at many of the posts it appears to have become a Brexiteer bashing thread rather than a discussion around the delays - much like the original Brexit thread.

There are some posts which are a bit 'Brexiteer bashing' but they seem to come generally as a response to someone posting 'It's nothing to do with Brexit' and 'we need to move on' with absolutely no evidence or facts to support that case, other than their opinion (valid or invalid, as explained above).

This was certainly the case of last night's fun and games. Because I'm sure you are aware that in order to 'move on' we need the Government to Get Brexit Done by implementing Import controls, their preferred Northern Ireland Protocol etc without causing further economic harm and cost of living increases or breaking International law. Then we could all thankfully 'Move on'.

I'm sure you know that I wouldn't condone 'Brexiteer bashing' in any manner but maybe if someone put forward a case of 'It's nothing to do with Brexit' with some supporting evidence, the resulting discussion may be different