[Politics] Brexit

[W.C.]

Predictable. The French Government lied about Liverpool fans at the Champions League Final. An enormous cover up of systematic organizational failure that was obvious to all and exposed in their public enquiry. The whole thing was particularly sick given the cover ups over here over Hillsborough. The reaction of most of NSC ? Blame the scousers. Whom should we blame this time I wonder.

If the posters on that thread who were blaming scousers represented 'most of NSC' I would have stopped using it years ago. Simply not true.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Leave the Single Market, get this shite.

The sooner we rejoin the Single Market, the sooner loads of issues melt away and the sooner this country gets off its knees.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Leave the Single Market, get this shite.

The sooner we rejoin the Single Market, the sooner loads of issues melt away and the sooner this country gets off its knees.

There is an alternative. Obviously the majority on this board are in favour of joining a political union, partly in order to make travel to France easier. But what of those of us who like to visit America? Is there any likelihood of joining a political union with the USA, so that I won't have to queue up at the airport? Or would that be a nonsensical suggestion based on a stupid premise, like the EU one is?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Yes, so 10 booths are not enough on busy days. So what I am trying to establish is when those 10 booths appeared, because that 2020 article states the government turned down the offer to double the booths from 5 to 10. But now there are 10 (or 9 or 12)

That's not the point of these regurgiations fot eh 2020 article. The point is that in 2020 the government could have spent a lot of money, money which instead they chose to defer spending until it was needed. I think the idea may be that if they had opened the extra booths 18 months ago, many of the people held up this week could have travelled sometime in the last 18 months instead.

At least, if they have any better logic, I 'd like to hear it.

 

[dsr-burnley]

May I just add my opinion here that if you voted Leave you are a moron, Thanks for nothing...

Yes, that was an argument often put forward by people like yourself who consider themselves "better" than others. It was on the grounds of "I am clever and you are stupid, I despise you, I hold you in contempt, I believe you and your opinions to be worthless". Unfortunately it didn't win many votes.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Leave the Single Market, get this shite.

The sooner we rejoin the Single Market, the sooner loads of issues melt away and the sooner this country gets off its knees.

If only we had stayed in, our economy could be going the same way as Germany's?

 

[dsr-burnley]

Indeed Truss was an ardent remainer in June 2016.

Are you saying she cynically changed her mind for the sake of her career. The Lady IS for turning. She’ll have us back in the EU before you know it!

There are two principles at stake here. One is the principle of accepting the democratic mandate and working with it; the other is the principle of joining the EU. Maybe she places a higher value on democracy than on EU membership?

After all, the likes of Michael Foot, Tony Benn, and Barbara Castle were all willing and able to accept the democratic mandate in 1975 and remain in politics and government after the referendum result. It's a reasonable attitude.

 

[The Clamp]

There are two principles at stake here. One is the principle of accepting the democratic mandate and working with it; the other is the principle of joining the EU. Maybe she places a higher value on democracy than on EU membership?

After all, the likes of Michael Foot, Tony Benn, and Barbara Castle were all willing and able to accept the democratic mandate in 1975 and remain in politics and government after the referendum result. It's a reasonable attitude.

The EU referendum was not democratic. Too narrow a result margin, 3 million British people denied a vote, too many lies told. Only an idiot would consider that to be democratic.

However, that’s another thread really. Fair enough if you think Brexit is a good idea. IMO someone would have to have a very skewed idea of success to think Brexit is going well.

But it’s not an argument I can be bothered to engage in. Good luck to you .

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Just all mildly amusing really watching France control their borders somehow whilst being in the EU

Why should the French pay for more staff? They are better placed at understaffed airports where more people arrive into the country.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

No, I’m not bothered but I don’t like pots calling kettles. You say people are moaning when you’ve done your fair share.

Fair point, however from my point of view poor/rude customer service needs calling out to the employer, it's how a great business work....through feedback...i gave mine and all justifiable, if the employer chooses to not take my point on, then I can choose not to give my cash to them until I am ready. I need to see that they deal with customers in the right way in the future.

The French invented the pressure cooker, and they’re better at cooking than us.


And I don’t think they would agree the Brits are superior in every department.

Are they better cooks, they cook crepe food.

BTW love that the Brexit crowd still desperately trying to blame anything but Brexit when it’s pretty clear the fault lies squarely with it. Which suggests one of two things;

1. They know Brexit is to blame but can’t bring themselves to say so, meaning they’re cowards.
2. They genuinely think Brexit isn’t to blame for all this, making them stupid.

Would be intrigued to know which it is.

Or conversely.

1.Brexit likes to be blamed from remoaners, and that's why the Brexit thread is still running all these years on.
2.They genuinely think Brexit is to blame. Making them closed in mind and only able to follow sensationalist media hyping headlines.

Ps have unions caused and travel chaos lately? have lefty warriors block roads deliberately causing more chaos?

The French need to get those booths maned at the busiest time of year, this is not rocket science and they didn't, it's all political. Basically they are not our friends, we should stop pretending they are.
Yet again the liberal left love to knock their country, even when they are completely wrong.
Some of you liberals are so anti British it's untrue. The reason you are, is purely political.
If labour or the lib Dems were in, I would not lose my birth nation just because of politics, born British and will always back Britain.
If ever I felt like you guys I would be gone, your hatred for our country is always being promoted. Just go guys, you will feel better for it and so will our country.
#OnecountryBritain

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

There are two principles at stake here. One is the principle of accepting the democratic mandate and working with it; the other is the principle of joining the EU. Maybe she places a higher value on democracy than on EU membership?

After all, the likes of Michael Foot, Tony Benn, and Barbara Castle were all willing and able to accept the democratic mandate in 1975 and remain in politics and government after the referendum result. It's a reasonable attitude.

There just might be a difference between accepting the democratic mandate and working with it, and going from one extreme ardent remainer to all out embraced of the BREXIT cause. To me it stinks of hypocrisy and I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.

I became a convinced European when I was in the 6th form at school - 1969-71 - and have not changed my tune. I voted Remain for ideological reasons, but would also foresaw all the problems we have now, albeit didn’t foresee them as being as bad as they on fact are. That doesn’t mean I don’t accept BREXIT - it’s a fact of life. The extent of current problems is down to the incompetence of the bumbling idiots who have been getting it done.

I read this morning somewhere that Johnson has again said “we got all the big calls right.” I TOTALLY disagree. The only thing his lot did do ok was the initial vaccine rollout, but in my view they’ve stuffed that up now. People my age (69) In France had a 4th vaccine ages ago. And his unstinting support for the Ukraine is for all the wrong reasons - thinking that playing the Churchill role would win him support.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Fair point, however from my point of view poor/rude customer service needs calling out to the employer, it's how a great business work....through feedback...i gave mine and all justifiable, if the employer chooses to not take my point on, then I can choose not to give my cash to them until I am ready. I need to see that they deal with customers in the right way in the future.



Are they better cooks, they cook crepe food.



Or conversely.

1.Brexit likes to be blamed from remoaners, and that's why the Brexit thread is still running all these years on.
2.They genuinely think Brexit is to blame. Making them closed in mind and only able to follow sensationalist media hyping headlines.

Ps have unions caused and travel chaos lately? have lefty warriors block roads deliberately causing more chaos?

The French need to get those booths maned at the busiest time of year, this is not rocket science and they didn't, it's all political. Basically they are not our friends, we should stop pretending they are.
Yet again the liberal left love to knock their country, even when they are completely wrong.
Some of you liberals are so anti British it's untrue. The reason you are, is purely political.
If labour or the lib Dems were in, I would not lose my birth nation just because of politics, born British and will always back Britain.
If ever I felt like you guys I would be gone, your hatred for our country is always being promoted. Just go guys, you will feel better for it and so will our country.
#OnecountryBritain

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

I’ve just posted on here that all the problems we have at the moment are down to the bumbling incompetence of the people who have been “getting BREXIT done”, and getting it done badly.

The current Dover stuff, as travel experts (I.e Simon Calder) are now saying, was entirely foreseeable and is what was voted for - securing our borders. Fair enough. It was the Financial Times - a trustworthy source, I would think - which highlighted yesterday that our government had not agreed to a French suggestion to build more booths at Dover.

The French don’t hate us, and I am convinced a lot of the problem at the moment is right-wing paranoia. In my recent experience - a French holiday in June - we were welcomed wherever we went with open arms. And people sympathise with our position.

But however many booths there are, it takes time to check passports electronically and to stamp passports.

There’s nothing wrong with this country that a change of government might sort out - I say might sort out because I fear we are just going to get more of the same.

 

[Happy Exile]

If only we had stayed in, our economy could be going the same way as Germany's?

Reductionist arguments are an incredibly blunt tool for making a point and are generally a sign the person knows they've lost the argument, but I'll bite: the reasons for Germany's decline have absolutely nothing to do with them being in the EU and it's a bit weird to suggest the two things are linked. Our decline has "not being in the EU" as a direct contributory factor - even the government links the decline through our increased costs and drag on doing business with being out of the EU, and they support the whole idea. Also Germany's recovery, when it comes, will be directly linked to them being in the EU because of the preferential markets it gives them access to that we've chosen to be out of and haven't even got close to replacing (and never will).

You've cherry picked Germany as opposed to other EU countries (France, Italy, Spain expected to grow over 4%) but the main reason for Germany taking longer to recover is that their economy has enormous reliance on manufacturing. Like other countries that have an economy based on manufacturing the global supply chain issues have impacted them worse than other economies. There are other factors too obviously, but that's the main one. Germany has a great track record of getting out of recession though through leveraging the EU market and trade deals around the world for their goods - the whole idea of furloughing staff to enable businesses to pick up quickly after the pandemic came from the German approach to managing recession too. They just manage to do it without such enormous abuse and corruption.

There is an alternative. Obviously the majority on this board are in favour of joining a political union, partly in order to make travel to France easier. But what of those of us who like to visit America? Is there any likelihood of joining a political union with the USA, so that I won't have to queue up at the airport? Or would that be a nonsensical suggestion based on a stupid premise, like the EU one is?

We still export three times as much value of goods to the EU than we do to the USA. The profit for the exports to EU is deteriorating rapidly (due to the massively increased cost of doing so) and what we export is having to change which is having a big impact on small businesses and agriculture, but even so while a political union with the USA might be attractive for all sorts of reasons, it'd make little commercial sense simply because they don't need us as much as we need them. What they buy from us per capita is pretty limited. The unfortunate reality is that if we stopped existing tomorrow it'd be a bump in the road for the US economy but they'd get over it fast, but if they stopped existing tomorrow it'd be cataclysmic for us - I'm pretty sure we import about as much per capita as they do from us but our population is 20%(?) of the size. Unfortunately as we're seeing, us leaving the EU has been a bump in the road for them too, but for us the consequences are proving quite a lot more serious. Incredibly we're not as important or self-sufficient as we were led to believe. Funnily enough, the most efficient way to build a strong economy in the UK and a strong country with high employment, good quality of living and a strong voice in the world - really the patriotic thing to do - would be to join the single market.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Fair point, however from my point of view poor/rude customer service needs calling out to the employer, it's how a great business work....through feedback...i gave mine and all justifiable, if the employer chooses to not take my point on, then I can choose not to give my cash to them until I am ready. I need to see that they deal with customers in the right way in the future.



Are they better cooks, they cook crepe food.



Or conversely.

1.Brexit likes to be blamed from remoaners, and that's why the Brexit thread is still running all these years on.
2.They genuinely think Brexit is to blame. Making them closed in mind and only able to follow sensationalist media hyping headlines.

Ps have unions caused and travel chaos lately? have lefty warriors block roads deliberately causing more chaos?

The French need to get those booths maned at the busiest time of year, this is not rocket science and they didn't, it's all political. Basically they are not our friends, we should stop pretending they are.
Yet again the liberal left love to knock their country, even when they are completely wrong.
Some of you liberals are so anti British it's untrue. The reason you are, is purely political.
If labour or the lib Dems were in, I would not lose my birth nation just because of politics, born British and will always back Britain.
If ever I felt like you guys I would be gone, your hatred for our country is always being promoted. Just go guys, you will feel better for it and so will our country.
#OnecountryBritain

https://www.ft.com/content/2a6662a0-975e-4bcd-9f5b-e241256db4df

Just to reinforce things, it didn’t take long to find this from the FT in 2020, which confirms the Port of Dover had a request for £33m to build extra passport booths turned down, and which also predicts delays of 1 to 2 hours when full passport control was implemented, and this would be worse at peak times - thereby entirely predicting this weekend’s chaos.

We are getting what we voted for collectively - fair enough.

 

[Simster]

Yes, that was an argument often put forward by people like yourself who consider themselves "better" than others. It was on the grounds of "I am clever and you are stupid, I despise you, I hold you in contempt, I believe you and your opinions to be worthless". Unfortunately it didn't win many votes.

Ah the favourite whinge of every Brexiteer you'll ever meet. "You remoaners think we're all thick and stupid. Well you lost, get over it". I'm embarrassed for you that you think this is still where we're at.

Where we're at more accurately, is that anyone who voted Brexit and still refuses to acknowledge any of the problems that are caused by that decision, and would rather blame everybody else than come up with some answers - IS a moron. And what a lot of problems there have been. We'll ignore these trivial border issues if you like, let's talk about our EU exports being absolutely decimated, our farming and fishing industries going to the dogs or the destabilisation of Northern Ireland for which no Brexiteer ever has an answer and just blames the EU for having the temerity of wanting to enforce a Tory negotiated protocol.

I won't call anyone who voted leave a moron, but I'm not having this. You voted for this mess, it's time you rolled your sleeves up and came up with some answers to deal with issues rather than ALWAYS blaming someone else. And if you can't do that, we will absolutely need to have another referendum. This isn't going away, we're not moving on because this constant turmoil is absolute shite and most of us don't want it.

 

[Stat Brother]

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

So vulnerable.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There is an alternative. Obviously the majority on this board are in favour of joining a political union, partly in order to make travel to France easier. But what of those of us who like to visit America? Is there any likelihood of joining a political union with the USA, so that I won't have to queue up at the airport? Or would that be a nonsensical suggestion based on a stupid premise, like the EU one is?

There is always talk of 51st State / Airstrip 1 and that could happen in the longer term I suppose.

I favour joining the Single Market - I don't subscribe to the "rule takers" lie and so I'm ambivalent as to whether this is inside or outside the EU. I regard the Single Market as the jewel in the EU crown and am happy to take the gem and leave the metal it is set in. Or we could just take the whole crown.

 

[cunning fergus]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/travel/uk-visitors-spain-must-now-24537366.amp

“UK visitors to Spain must now prove they have £85 a day spending money to fund trip”

How much does one get on benefits these days? Is it enough to be allowed into Benidorm?

Well, to be fair to Spain it does have it’s own problems with people trying to get there without money…….so good for them in coming up with a solution.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/24/hundreds-of-migrants-storm-border-fence-in-spains-melilla

Maybe there’s a lesson to be learnt by the U.K. from these Spanish practices?

 

[A1X]

Ps have unions caused and travel chaos lately? have lefty warriors block roads deliberately causing more chaos?

I wasn’t aware that either had done so for 3-4 days continuously but please do feel free to engage in whataboutery to deflect from the elephant in the room

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

If only we had stayed in, our economy could be going the same way as Germany's?

If we'd stayed the Single Market our economy would be in a far stronger place now and going forward.