[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

Or sober up and answer a question

 

[cunning fergus]

[MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] "Transit" argument was blown out the water a number of months ago. He has a handful of arguments which, and are, picked apart quite easily. He recycles them a number of months later when I presume he thinks people have forgotten.

He has some highly amusing history with misunderstanding VAT, muddling trade surpluses and deficits and my all time favourite dabbling in pharmacoeconimcs, a topic he clearly knew **** all about and was most likely Googling up on as he was posting. Why he just didn't stop I have no idea.

In short, he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

It's good to know you have a detailed record over my posting history, maybe its a little bit obsessive but then as I have made a relatively small contribution to this board over the last 7 years compared to your own Bismark-like contribution of 30,000 posts plus. Something about empty vessels springs to mind.

Any road my wenig kartoffelkloesse, let's deal with these issues through a Teutonic paradigm, logically and without emotion.

In light of pb21's post that stated I was incorrect on the matter of the EIB and Ford, that compelled you to make your post above, I responded with 1329. He has yet to reply.

But, as you say this matter was "blown out the water" like the the Tirpitz a mere couple of months ago, and therefore like General Hoth you can ride to the rescue of your befuddled kamerad pb21 and answer 1329. Feel free to clarify the logic of the EIB lending money to Ford so that manufacturing jobs in the U.K. and EU can be lost to a non EU state.

Viel Gluck.

 

[portslade seagull]

It's good to know you have a detailed record over my posting history, maybe its a little bit obsessive but then as I have made a relatively small contribution to this board over the last 7 years compared to your own Bismark-like contribution of 30,000 posts plus. Something about empty vessels springs to mind.

Any road my wenig kartoffelkloesse, let's deal with these issues through a Teutonic paradigm, logically and without emotion.

In light of pb21's post that stated I was incorrect on the matter of the EIB and Ford, that compelled you to make your post above, I responded with 1329. He has yet to reply.

But, as you say this matter was "blown out the water" like the the Tirpitz a mere couple of months ago, and therefore like General Hoth you can ride to the rescue of your befuddled kamerad pb21 and answer 1329. Feel free to clarify the logic of the EIB lending money to Ford so that manufacturing jobs in the U.K. and EU can be lost to a non EU state.

Viel Gluck.

Expect a non responsive answer which will leave more questions tnan before whilst all these great trade deals supposedly being agreed by this thing called the EU unravel everyday before our very eyes

 

[Diego Napier]

Sure, I am biased, but let's not deceive ourselves that you are a paragon of neutrality.

These colourful broad brush strokes about how money from the EU is used to stimulate you refer too are a familiar narrative, however whilst I don't doubt that there is some truth I refuse to accept it is an unequivocal force for good.

Sure, I'm not neutral but I don't share your urge for immediate recourse to google to confirm my bias.

I too don't accept that the EU is an unequivocal force for good however, looking at the complete economic, legal, humanitarian, environmental & social picture, I do believe that on balance it does far more good than evil. We're 70,000 years into a journey from tribal groups to global citizenship and I view as a negative any regression to our superstitious parochial past.

There is also fantastic waste, whether via CAP, the unnecessary egotistical space programme projects, the moving between Strasbourg and Brussels etc.

There is fantastic waste in all aspects of governance, a lot of which is dependent on an individual viewpoint. Whilst some might see billions spent on nuclear deterrence as an imperative others believe it's a waste; some demand additional billions be spent on the NHS whilst others believe it already swallows far too much of the UK's GDP. To borrow a phrase from you, let's not deceive ourselves that the mass of ordinary UK citizens are worse off in the EU or will be materially better off outside.

Some have stated on this thread and others that we are now presented with a wonderful opportunity to make Britain Great again. How are we being held back by the EU? Is EU membership influencing creative individuals to be less innovative or workers lazier or companies less competitive or rich capitalists not invest in British factories? Will leaving the EU galvanise the workforce, suddenly unleashing motivated individuals who will help us catch and then exceed the productivity levels achieved by France, or Italy?

All aspects the myopic remainers wave aside as a price worth paying by UK taxpayers.

Rather tenuous assumption and hyperbole on the basis of the two examples you used earlier.

This inexplicable decision by the EIB to lend money to Ford is far from just an EU issue, it must have been approved no doubt by the EU Govts, including the UK's.

That is why it is so depressing........none of the f*ckers can be trusted........but at least with the right kind of Brexit the U.K. Govt won't be able hide this kind of shit from UK voters once we are out the EU.

Your conclusion depicts you as more gullible than I'd realised. Remote obscured decisions both bureaucratic and democratic affecting you & I will continue to be made in Whitehall and multi-national boardrooms at home and abroad in which we will continue have no say in whatsoever.

We started our discourse by me rather ironically challenging a post you made to someone else on this thread:-

I guess you don't have the mental motor skills that enable you to grasp the concept of cause and effect.

If you did, then understanding why millions of people decided to vote for Brexit is really rather simple.........

I believe I know why the majority did but you're yet to explain why.

 

[Diego Napier]

What a load of verbal effluent.

How much is your kids' rent?

 

[Jim D]

Are we now headed toward an EU superstate dictatorship?

With one small sub-state (Wallonia) blocking the Canadian trade agreement the EU has now told the Canadians that they will clear the blockage. From what I can understand (and presuming the Walloons don't arbitrarily decide to agree the deal) the only way to do this is either to bribe them or bypass them. Either way this will set a dangerous precedent. 'bribery' can come in many forms but will be against the current rules on giving special treatment to member states, but it is the bypass option that concerns me the most. In order to do this the EU will need to override a legitimate power of veto. Once that particular genie is out of the bottle it won't go back and will be available in the future. I'm sure there are several leaders or would-be leaders quite excited by this prospect.
Yet another reason to be glad we're soon to be no part of this corrupt and increasingly dictatorial organisation.

 

[Two Professors]

Mentioning the productivity levels of Italy and France against the UK is pretty pointless without off-setting this against employment figures.As the UK has a far larger proportion of employed people,a lot of whom are in non-productive jobs like economists,of course our productivity levels are down.Our unemployment hovers around 5%,but France and Italy's is double that level and benefit claimers aren't included in productivity figures.I'm sure you knew this,but didn't want to confuse us simple-minded Brexiteers.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Mentioning the productivity levels of Italy and France against the UK is pretty pointless without off-setting this against employment figures.As the UK has a far larger proportion of employed people,a lot of whom are in non-productive jobs like economists,of course our productivity levels are down.Our unemployment hovers around 5%,but France and Italy's is double that level and benefit claimers aren't included in productivity figures.I'm sure you knew this,but didn't want to confuse us simple-minded Brexiteers.

Yes, productivity should be shown in gross terms.

 

[pastafarian]

I believe I know why the majority did but you're yet to explain why.

you fell at the first hurdle when you explained the accountability of our own parliament to its citizens was not important.
You may think you know why the majority voted, perhaps you are like the clamp who thinks its all about stopping brown Europeans coming here.
i very much doubt you have any understanding of why the majority voted the way they did,

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

We are not,we voted Leave.....

 

[Collingburnian]

Mr. Juncker, the appointed, not elected, "CEO" of the EU has said all along that he wants the EU to be a supranational organisation, with him telling all what they may or may not do. That is effectively a dictatorship and is a very good reason for us to be out of it

 

[BUTTERBALL]

Bloody hell thats frightening .................... the fact that you're using Gatwick airport currency exchange shops as a barometer of sterling values , not the level they are buying sterling at

It was merely a passing observation sadly met with a supercilious response. They were buying at around 1.10 if i remember correctly.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

FFS give it a rest.

A bit like corrupt and tyrannical English dictatorship preventing Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland fulfilling their independent destiny?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

FFS give it a rest.

A bit like corrupt and tyrannical English dictatorship preventing Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland fulfilling their independent destiny?

No,the Scottish electorate did that in 2014..

 

[Diego Napier]

Mentioning the productivity levels of Italy and France against the UK is pretty pointless without off-setting this against employment figures.As the UK has a far larger proportion of employed people,a lot of whom are in non-productive jobs like economists,of course our productivity levels are down.Our unemployment hovers around 5%,but France and Italy's is double that level and benefit claimers aren't included in productivity figures.I'm sure you knew this,but didn't want to confuse us simple-minded Brexiteers.

Okay (assuming you're responding to post #1416) year on year, France produces roughly the same as the UK but as it has a far higher rate of unemployment then it must do so by working far fewer hours than the UK and producing far more per worker than the UK. However, inter nation comparisons not the real issue, the question is if the UK has poor productivity rates in the EU why would they increase after brexit?

 

[Diego Napier]

you fell at the first hurdle when you explained the accountability of our own parliament to its citizens was not important.
You may think you know why the majority voted, perhaps you are like the clamp who thinks its all about stopping brown Europeans coming here.
i very much doubt you have any understanding of why the majority voted the way they did,

The narrowness of your perspective deludes you into assuming the majority of the population who voted for brexit did so because they share your delusion.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Thankfully we're off so don't have to worry about this corrupt bunch of nonces for much longer.
Happy,happy days.

 

[el punal]

FFS give it a rest.

A bit like corrupt and tyrannical English dictatorship preventing Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland fulfilling their independent destiny?

How so?

 

[Baldseagull]

The real worry for us, is it shows how difficult it can be to get a trade agreement with the E.U.,the Dutch are also holding up an agreement with the Ukraine that everyone else was signed up to and was ready to go with, 2 years ago.

As far as the E.U. are concerned it is Belgium that is not signing up, the Belgian constitution needs all 5 of its regional parliaments to agree to it before it can give its agreement to the E.U.
It is the Walloons "veto" within Belgium that is the blockage, it will be the Belgian Federal Government that bribes one of it's constituent parts I suspect.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

It does seem very silly that a region of one country can block the whole EU-Canada trade deal, so perhaps they'll have to look at changing the system to some sort of democratic vote of the member states for such deals in future.