[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

...oh, and I forgot the one who said she voted out because she much preferred Florida to the Costas.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You are typically twisting the story and chucking in a loaded question to boot.

The simple fact is
the 48% whether they backed free movement or not,voted knowing their vote if they won would result in keeping free movement
the 52% whether they backed free movement or not,voted knowing their vote if they won would result in ending free movement

it was widely discussed before they vote, people knew the options and people knew the consequences of their vote, you are simply suggesting one side of the debate didnt know what they were voting for or what the consequences were.....which is a load of tosh

Oh, and the person I asked replied that he thought the answer to my question was around 95 per cent. Fair enough. I respect his view. But that's all it took - a simple answer to a straightforward question. No need for you to go off on one. (Given that of my friends who voted Leave, three did so for reasons unconnected with FoM - one was happier with immigration levels than I am - I'd have thought the figure was a bit less than 95 per cent but I'm only guessing of course.)

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I'M SURPRISED HE HASN'T LEFT THE COUNTRY BY NOW , HE WOULDN'T BE MISSED
regards
DR

I've explained before, one reason for me not wanting to leave the country is that I would miss 30-odd Albion games a year. How many would you miss?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

...oh, and I forgot the one who said she voted out because she much preferred Florida to the Costas.

A Facebook friend of a friend at the weekend, who voted remain, was very upset as an article was posted complaining that people would lose EU citizenship (whatever that is). She countered strongly, as 'We are and will remain EU citizens anyway as the UK is located in northern Europe. We are not picking up our island and moving it somewhere else.'



I don't think political ignorance is confined to one side. I've always been shocked at the general level of misconception and naivety displayed by MOST people.

 

[BigGully]

Yes I am sure some people voted Remain for daft reasons but I'd hazard far more Leavers did. Somebody will write a book on them. Among people I know the most unpleasant (but still crazy) reason was the number of black people in hospital waiting rooms. Of the two members of my extended family who voted Out one did so because she was fed up with Russians buying so many London properties. The other voted out because of "the immigrants", even though he has rarely met one, never been inconvenienced by one, has only occasionally expressed any interest in anything outside his immediate surroundings and had forgotten that his daughter in law is Spanish.

You talk as if immigration is some exaggerated view based purely on prejudice, the numbers on immigration are historically unprecedented, immigration is an issue and a major one whether you are a Remainer or Brexiteer, even the most ardent pro EU must see the challenges it poses on so many levels and is it really fair to only have a valid view on it if only personally you have been directly effected by it ??

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You talk as if immigration is some exaggerated view based purely on prejudice, the numbers on immigration are historically unprecedented, immigration is an issue and a major one whether you are a Remainer or Brexiteer, even the most ardent pro EU must see the challenges it poses on so many levels and is it really fair to only have a valid view on it if only personally you have been directly effected by it ??

Look, I am not trying to be clever - always fails anyway - but I wonder how many people could name, without Googling, more than one or two places in the UK that have unsurmountable problems with EU immigration. A lot of it is reaction to paper talk or mendacious politicians. Last week, the MP for Canterbury reported in the Times that every door he knocked on during the campaign resulted in a conversation about how immigration had led to a local housing crisis. This was followed by a letter for the local housing authorities explaining that the problem was almost entirely due to student numbers. Someone was making things up. During the campaign the Express, closely followed by the Mail, was spewing out its front page 'stories' day after day after day - are you saying this had no effect at all?

 

[Jim in the West]

Why does nobody ever mention the cut in interest rates when talking about the current value of the pound?

Cutting to 0.25% would've devalued the pound whether we were in the EU or not. Obviously there's a cumulative effect with the Brexit vote as well but surely you have to expect fluctuations in the markets because of the uncertainty. It won't stop until the dust has settled and we have a stable political system. I wonder if people will still be bickering on this thread in 5 years!

The main ECB rate is ZERO percent, and the deposit facility is MINUS 0.4%. Our interest rates are above those in the rest of Europe, yet our currency is still trashed. The reason is the economic uncertainty of Brexit. (And it's not QE either - The ECB is printing money faster than the UK (Euro 80 billion per month at the mo).

 

[Igzilla]

not sure what world you refer to, 1 bed flats are more like £150pw in Brighton. confusing pw with pcm?

Good luck with that one, lol. Few and far between. Looking at what's actually available, I'd say the average was more like £210.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E93554&maxBedrooms=1&minBedrooms=1&numberOfPropertiesPerPage=24&radius=0.0&sortType=1&index=0&propertyTypes=flat&primaryDisplayPropertyType=flats&viewType=LIST&areaSizeUnit=sqft&currencyCode=GBP

 

[Berty23]

You talk as if immigration is some exaggerated view based purely on prejudice, the numbers on immigration are historically unprecedented, immigration is an issue and a major one whether you are a Remainer or Brexiteer, even the most ardent pro EU must see the challenges it poses on so many levels and is it really fair to only have a valid view on it if only personally you have been directly effected by it ??

When people use the line "immigrants are taking our jobs" they actually mean "immigrants are taking the jobs that I think other people should be doing"

go and speak to a farmer in the fens or east anglia and ask how easy recruitment would be without immigrants!

There has been some pressure on lower end of the wage scale but the fact is that employment is at an all time high and unemployment is low. Some pressure on other services but often these services employ immigrants and they actually keep it afloat.

Before the last election the general levels of support for ukip was higher in areas with few immigrants whereas areas with immigrants were against ukip - this is not just "of course immigrants won't support ukip" because the figures were so different.

as you say, views are often driven by the media and people have no experience. Similar to how "we want to make our own laws rather than daft EU laws" but then they can't name one they don't like!

 

[Jim in the West]

Incidentally, I read this morning that (a) the government is looking to pay several billion pounds a year to the EU to ensure "passporting" for financial services post-Brexit; (b) it is looking at similar deals for car makers to ensure they don't up-sticks [the head of the German car makers association has said production in the UK will switch elsewhere post-Brexit if access to the single market is lost]; (c) we will lose around £66bn a year in tax revenue and other receipts (a report backed by the Treasury, post the Referendum); (d) we are likely to have to pay around £20bn (or more) to settle a range of liabilities to the EU on leaving.

And Theresa May is about to confirm that the NHS will get ZERO extra funding (where did the promised £350m a week go?)

Hopefully all those that voted Leave have got deep pockets, because this process is going to cost a huge amount. Unfortunately, the financial consequences of their ill-informed decision will fall on us all (although disproportionately on the poor, I'm sure).

The good news is - at some unspecified time in the future (say, 25 or 30 years hence), things might start to get better

 

[Igzilla]

Work pay.

21yr - 24yr old £6.95ph. 40hr week £278.00, Monthly £1195.40 Gross
25yr and over £7.20ph 40hr week £288.00, Monthly £1238.40 Gross

Work and you pay council tax, full rent, food, transport, self presentation ablution products, communications fees, access to some TV services, clothes, prescriptions, dentistry and more.
Do you think either of these figures covers all that when a one bed property to rent in Sussex can be up to £850 per week? Food up to £100 per week let alone the rest.
I highlight the part of your post that most worries me. Workers deserve a minimum living wage (over £10ph) and both you and I should agree that everyone deserves a wage that at least provides dignity and the ability to look after themselves and their families.

Actually, you're being generous with the 21-24yr old take home. See screen shot of the actual after tax:



Added to that Council Tax, heating, food (I'd say more like £50-£75 pw. My family spend about £100 pw on food for a family of 3 veggies though, so no meat), TV and internet, mobile phone etc etc. Seeing as you're probably looking at £800 pcm on average, leaves you with £50 pw for the aforementioned, plus any in work benefits...if they exist anymore.

EDIT: according to a benefits calculator linked from the Government site, a 22 yr old in full employment at minimum wage living in privately rented accommodation would be eligible for £16 a week Universal credit.

 

[BigGully]

Look, I am not trying to be clever - always fails anyway - but I wonder how many people could name, without Googling, more than one or two places in the UK that have unsurmountable problems with EU immigration. A lot of it is reaction to paper talk or mendacious politicians. Last week, the MP for Canterbury reported in the Times that every door he knocked on during the campaign resulted in a conversation about how immigration had led to a local housing crisis. This was followed by a letter for the local housing authorities explaining that the problem was almost entirely due to student numbers. Someone was making things up. During the campaign the Express, closely followed by the Mail, was spewing out its front page 'stories' day after day after day - are you saying this had no effect at all?

The figures are clear since 2001 the estimated population was 59.1 million and by 2015 it was estimated at 65 million with 242 000 net migrants each year from the previous ten years, this has implications that needn't be validated by any individual having a derigitory story about any foreigner, it is just at unsustainable levels.

Worth also noting that our own population density, 90% of international migrants come to England, we have 410 people per square kilometre, twice as much as Germany and 3.5 times that of France.

I cannot fathom how you can not see that it needs reducing, it isnt xenophobic to see that it needs addressing.

 

[Soulman]

The figures are clear since 2001 the estimated population was 59.1 million and by 2015 it was estimated at 65 million with 242 000 net migrants each year from the previous ten years, this has implications that needn't be validated by any individual having a derigitory story about any foreigner, it is just at unsustainable levels.

Worth also noting that our own population density, 90% of international migrants come to England, we have 410 people per square kilometre, twice as much as Germany and 3.5 times that of France.

I cannot fathom how you can not see that it needs reducing, it isnt xenophobic to see that it needs addressing.

Not very densely populated in Lincoln, send a few thousand up there.

 

[larus]

Yes I am sure some people voted Remain for daft reasons but I'd hazard far more Leavers did. Somebody will write a book on them. Among people I know the most unpleasant (but still crazy) reason was the number of black people in hospital waiting rooms. Of the two members of my extended family who voted Out one did so because she was fed up with Russians buying so many London properties. The other voted out because of "the immigrants", even though he has rarely met one, never been inconvenienced by one, has only occasionally expressed any interest in anything outside his immediate surroundings and had forgotten that his daughter in law is Spanish.

Just your opinion. I'd be fairly certain (again, just my opinion) there were lots of people scared off from voting Brexit because of the constant barrage of LIES from the remain side about the Armageddon coming our way if we had the audacity to vote out.

 

[Soulman]

The European Central Bank is becoming dangerously over-extended and the whole euro project is unworkable in its current form, the founding architect of the monetary union has warned.
"One day, the house of cards will collapse,” said Professor Otmar Issing, the ECB's first chief economist and a towering figure in the construction of the single currency.

 

[beorhthelm]

The European Central Bank is becoming dangerously over-extended and the whole euro project is unworkable in its current form, the founding architect of the monetary union has warned.
"One day, the house of cards will collapse,” said Professor Otmar Issing, the ECB's first chief economist and a towering figure in the construction of the single currency.

was interesting the piece in Telegraph today. Issing and Delores (ECB architects) both basically saying it all going pear shaped. and the solution? more fiscal integration within the Eurozone. a timely reminder of what we had to leave, its about the future as much as the present.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The European Central Bank is becoming dangerously over-extended and the whole euro project is unworkable in its current form, the founding architect of the monetary union has warned.
"One day, the house of cards will collapse,” said Professor Otmar Issing, the ECB's first chief economist and a towering figure in the construction of the single currency.

Yes, interesting article taken from the remainers favourite rag:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...f-cards-ecb-single-currency-a7364826.html?amp

This was one of my main reasons for the strength of feeling I had for leaving the EU. I wonder why, to my recollection, although many many remain posters here have expressed great fear regarding the pound and a lack of confidence in our economy, none of them has been honest enough to mention the doubts surrounding the stability of the European economy and the possible destabilisation of the Euro. As someone who voted leave, I am always ready to accept that there would be and is uncertainty in the decision to leave. Why is it that the other side has this HUGE blind spot regarding the EU's economic protects?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The European Central Bank is becoming dangerously over-extended and the whole euro project is unworkable in its current form, the founding architect of the monetary union has warned.
"One day, the house of cards will collapse,” said Professor Otmar Issing, the ECB's first chief economist and a towering figure in the construction of the single currency.

Yup. We may be the first to bail out (democratically) voluntarily, but we certainly won't be the last.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Just your opinion. I'd be fairly certain (again, just my opinion) there were lots of people scared off from voting Brexit because of the constant barrage of LIES from the remain side about the Armageddon coming our way if we had the audacity to vote out.

Which 'lies'? The ones about jobs being lost, and sterling collapsing against the Euro and the US dollar?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Which 'lies'? The ones about jobs being lost, and sterling collapsing against the Euro and the US dollar?

Well the chancellor lied and said there would be an emergency budget for a start.