[Politics] Brexit

[Green Cross Code Man]

Corrected for you.

Your statement was objective. The subjective part is in finding people who are objectively qualified.

 

[Diego Napier]

The statement is true in a pure form. However it is also true that no one is qualified to judge.

Of course they are however, the degree of objectivity and/or subjectivity they employ is directly proportional to their intellect, rationality, accumulated knowledge, sense of perspective, personal experience and powers of reasoning.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

By that logic, if someone is deemed to be unqualified to judge, that persons opinion is being judged by those that are unqualified.
Surely to Judge is to give an opinion, an opinion which shall have it's worth be judged by the set of rules set out above.

My point is that I don't believe in true objectivity.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Slow day on NSC today

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Of course they are however, the degree of objectivity and/or subjectivity they employ is directly proportional to their intellect, rationality, accumulated knowledge, sense of perspective, personal experience and powers of reasoning.

You have covered just about all the eventualities there! [emoji3]

 

[Diego Napier]

My point is that I don't believe in true objectivity.

The results of a number of our recent plebiscites more than lend support your belief however, ignoring binary absolutes, objectivity rather than subjectivity is a far truer measure of value.

 

[Diego Napier]

Slow day on NSC today

Not 'arf!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The results of a number of our recent plebiscites more than lend support your belief however, ignoring binary absolutes, objectivity rather than subjectivity is a far truer measure of value.

Agreed. Lol!

 

[beorhthelm]

Of course they are however, the degree of objectivity and/or subjectivity they employ is directly proportional to their intellect, rationality, accumulated knowledge, sense of perspective, personal experience and powers of reasoning.

the fact he is a Nobel laurete in Physics doesnt have much bearing on his objectivity on the political subject of Brexit, especially considering the langauge: "...i feel very strongly about Brexit and do not wish to be associated...". not very objective.

 

[GT49er]

I meant almost half the people who did vote didn't vote to leave.

So therefore, by definition, more than half DID vote to leave. Therefore the decision is to leave. It's really that simple.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

So therefore, by definition, more than half DID vote to leave. Therefore the decision is to leave. It's really that simple.

That doesn't make sense. We're either in the EU, or we're not. Given that more than half the voters wanted out, what would your solution be?

It seems very odd that so many people can't grasp this one. I am pretty sure they wouldn't feel aggrieved if the result hadn't gone the other way.

 

[kevo]

So therefore, by definition, more than half DID vote to leave. Therefore the decision is to leave. It's really that simple.

You seem to be (probably deliberately) missing my point, which is that there is a huge minority (almost half the people who voted) who didn't want to leave at all, and here we are hurtling into a suicidal 'hard' Brexit with no concessions to those who wanted us to stay in the EU.

That 37% of eligible voters are able to determine the future for everyone else is ludicrous, not least because a lot of those who voted to leave did so on the basis of a massive, stinking, fat LIE

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You seem to be (probably deliberately) missing my point, which is that there is a huge minority (almost half the people who voted) who didn't want to leave at all, and here we are hurtling into a suicidal 'hard' Brexit with no concessions to those who wanted us to stay in the EU.

That 37% of eligible voters are able to determine the future for everyone else is ludicrous, not least because a lot of those who voted to leave did so on the basis of a massive, stinking, fat LIE

View attachment 78508

The end result would have worked both ways. Had the result been the other way round, do you think the remain camp would be thinking about the losers? Of course not. That is what we are stuck with and in a general election things are just the same.

Unfortunately, with the close result and the dissatisfaction from the losers, we are saddled with the undesirable situation you describe.

 

[pb21]

The end result would have worked both ways. Had the result been the other way round, do you think the remain camp would be thinking about the losers? Of course not. That is what we are stuck with and in a general election things are just the same.

Unfortunately, with the close result and the dissatisfaction from the losers, we are saddled with the undesirable situation you describe.

The difference is that Dave already secured reform so you knew what you were voting for if you voted for remain.

The only possible things offered by Brexit (350 million tospend on the NHS, free fuel for the elderly etc.) have since all been shown to be lies.

There was no plan for Brexit. People voted to leave the EU, not specific details as to how that would work.

Now the current government seems to be pursuing a 'hard Brexit', on absolutely no more of a democratic basis than if they were to pursue a 'soft Brexit'.

You would assume that of those two options Remainers would prefer the soft option, and many of the Brexit vote too, but who knows?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The difference is that Dave already secured reform so you knew what you were voting for if you voted for remain.

The only possible things offered by Brexit (350 million tospend on the NHS, free fuel for the elderly etc.) have since all been shown to be lies.

There was no plan for Brexit. People voted to leave the EU, not specific details as to how that would work.

Now the current government seems to be pursuing a 'hard Brexit', on absolutely no more of a democratic basis than if they were to pursue a 'soft Brexit'.

You would assume that of those two options Remainers would prefer the soft option, and many of the Brexit vote too, but who knows?

Yes, who knows. The disgusting way both parties carried out their campaigns was a huge disappointment. I think the remain campaign was equally disingenuous although on different points. Neither party made any difference to me as I already had strong opinions.

It's already been mentioned that if Cameron had come back with more from the EU then we wouldn't be in this position. I actually felt a little sorry for him on his return. He was dead man walking. I am, however, eternally grateful to the intransigence of the EU leaders who were so scared of encouraging others along the same route, that they left him coming home with a pyrrhic victory which has probably destabilised the EU far more than if they'd been generous and made the exit vote far more likely.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

They won't but they will be able to blame it on following the 'democratic will of the people.'

It's the get out of jail free card from heaven. Especially, given the current PM was a remainer.

I fear what we are seeing is a permanent and irreversible decline in our living standards with 30 years of crap government being the cause and Brexit acting as the catalyst.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

I agree. The ghost of Sir Keith Joseph has finally arrived it seems, courtesy of many of the very people who will suffer most.

 

[beorhthelm]

The difference is that Dave already secured reform so you knew what you were voting for if you voted for remain.

he had "secured" nothing, there was already objections against some of the few concessions he had semi-agreed, none of which had any legal basis. EU is carrying on with closer integration talking amongst other topics of a single foreign policy and EU army in recent months.

had we voted to remain by similar margin, 37% of voters would have determined a future of closer integration towards a federal EU. stop pretending tha a vote to remain was for nothing to change, with a few tweaks in our favour, it was to be tied to whatever the EU decided to do for the next generation.

 

[alfredmizen]

The worth of an individual's opinion is judged by their intellect, rationality, accumulated knowledge, sense of perspective, personal experience, powers of reasoning and the quality of their argument. Not the place on the earth where they were born.

Firstly I didn't mention where he was born , I mentioned where he is now , and where he is now wouldn't stand for freedom of movement with their NAFTA partners , wouldn't stand for rulings on US matters by representatives of Mexico and Canada , and wouldn't stand for laws that affected the U S being enacted by Canadian and Mexican lawmakers , so I think mentioning this with regard to his statement on Brexit is very pertinent indeed , in fact , did you read my post at all ? As your reply to it seems I'll considered at best or gibberish if I was to be really truthful.

 

[GT49er]

You seem to be (probably deliberately) missing my point, which is that there is a huge minority (almost half the people who voted) who didn't want to leave at all.

Yes. Almost half. Not quite half. Less than half. Not half. Certainly not the more than half you and your fellow disappointed remainers needed to, err, remain.

To paraphrase (with correction): "You seem to be missing the point, which is that there is a huge* majority (over half the people who voted) who did want to leave".






* Over a million, I believe............

 

[vegster]

They made that claim in august. Nothing new here.

So the fact that is starting to happen does not invalidate it then?